tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29769707.post6543923411956963081..comments2024-02-10T18:19:36.406-08:00Comments on Newspaper Rock: Crusoe and cannibals on TVRobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01478763837213733775noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29769707.post-78099989222093726902008-09-16T04:27:00.000-07:002008-09-16T04:27:00.000-07:00P.S. I proved your assertion about Friday never be...P.S. I proved your assertion about Friday never being an Indian in movies false in <A HREF="http://www.bluecorncomics.com/2008/09/no-fridays-as-indians.html" REL="nofollow">No Fridays as Indians?</A> and <A HREF="http://www.bluecorncomics.com/2008/09/movie-guide-to-friday.html" REL="nofollow">Movie Guide to Friday</A>. Read 'em and weep, loser.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01478763837213733775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29769707.post-44414950769687212542008-09-10T12:31:00.000-07:002008-09-10T12:31:00.000-07:00Quoting the original text is all the "meaningful r...Quoting the original text is all the "meaningful research" anyone needs to prove you're an ignorant ass, Russ. As DMarks noted, there's no "if" about the Friday character being Native. He is and you're a stupid idiot if you don't understand that.<BR/><BR/>As for your worthless questions about the movie portrayals of Friday, DMarks answered you and so did I. Since you didn't grasp our answers the first time, read them again. Get someone to help you if the big words confuse you.<BR/><BR/>We don't need to resort to <I>Star Trek</I> analogies to ridicule your pathetic position. Movies have portrayed Pocahontas as a nubile young woman. According to your "logic," therefore, she must <I>be</I> a nubile young woman. Movies have portrayed Sitting Bull and Geronimo as stoic savages. According to your "logic," therefore, they must <I>be</I> stoic savages. Etc.<BR/><BR/>Heck, Italians and Greeks have played Indians in the movies. According to your "logic," therefore, your ancestors must've <I>been</I> Italians and Greeks. Friday was black and you're a Greco-Roman "Indian" because movies have told us so.<BR/><BR/>You didn't address any of the possible reasons I gave for Friday's not being portrayed by a Native actor. Were you too stupid to understand what I wrote, again? Or were you too afraid to admit you lost the debate, again? Or both?Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01478763837213733775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29769707.post-61142109605772740632008-09-08T00:16:00.000-07:002008-09-08T00:16:00.000-07:00Writerfella here -- dMarks, it is not the same...Writerfella here --<BR/> dMarks, it is not the same and writerfella quite is certain that you know it. Basically you are arguing simply for the same of argument, as STAR TREK nowhere else is to be found in this blogthread. Until now, as Spock instead was claimed to be Romulan by a racist white ENTERPRISE crewman in TOS episode, "Balance Of Terror." So, there...<BR/>All Best<BR/>Russ Bates<BR/>'writerfella'writerfellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00111681906238053379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29769707.post-39230957259655230642008-09-07T04:41:00.000-07:002008-09-07T04:41:00.000-07:00Writerfella: The question of why Natives have been...Writerfella: The question of why Natives have been portrayed by non-Natives in movies is entirely different from the "question" of whether or not the Friday character in <I>Robinson Crusoe</I> was a Native. <BR/><BR/>The former, and the lack of opportunities traditionally given to Native actors in Native roles in film, has been discussed a lot at "Newspaper Rock". As for the latter, there is no question. <BR/><BR/>There is no "if" about the Friday character being Native:<BR/><BR/>Wikipedia:<BR/><BR/>"Crusoe describes Friday as being a Native American"<BR/><BR/>Sparknotes:<BR/><BR/>"Even to represent a Native American with the individual characterization that Defoe gives Friday"<BR/><BR/>Amazon.com<BR/><BR/>"...the relationship between Crusoe and his Native American manservant, Friday..."<BR/><BR/>-----------<BR/><BR/>Russ, what next? Going to head over to the "Star Trek" boards and argue that Spock was really a Klingon? That's no different than claiming that Friday was a Pacific Islander.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29769707.post-7427671540913085792008-09-06T02:03:00.000-07:002008-09-06T02:03:00.000-07:00Writerfella here -- Too bad, as once again Rob...Writerfella here --<BR/> Too bad, as once again Rob (and even dMarks) failed to do their meaningful research. If their standpoint is so cogent, logical, and even historical, then why has the character of Friday NEVER been portrayed as a Native American or by a Native American? writerfella used Ask.com, got the names of all those actors in less than 90 seconds, and had them in his post one minute later. My, what a safe, secure, and well-manicured set of ivory towers the both of you must occupy...<BR/>All Best<BR/>Russ Bates<BR/>'writerfella'writerfellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00111681906238053379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29769707.post-49604143989042414512008-09-05T06:33:00.000-07:002008-09-05T06:33:00.000-07:00As for the so-called "San Blas natives," let's dis...As for the so-called "San Blas natives," let's discuss them in the <A HREF="http://www.bluecorncomics.com/2008/09/polynesians-brought-chickens.html" REL="nofollow">Polynesians Brought Chickens</A> thread, not here.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01478763837213733775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29769707.post-76904880687749605682008-09-05T06:30:00.000-07:002008-09-05T06:30:00.000-07:00Barking up the wrong tree...when I've quoted the o...Barking up the wrong tree...when I've <B>quoted the original text</B>?!? Just when I thought you'd said the stupidest thing possible, Russ, you topped yourself. Thanks for demonstrating that you literally can't read plain English. That you're so incredibly addled that you can't comprehend the words in front of your face.<BR/><BR/>"I ask'd him the Names of the several Nations of his Sort of People; but could get no other Name than <B>Caribs</B>." Read it and weep, loser. Whether you realize it or not, you've just lost another debate.<BR/><BR/>As for why movies have changed Friday's race...why have they ignored the role of Indians in American history altogether? Why have they compressed hundreds of distinct Native cultures into a single horde of war-whooping savages? Answer my questions and you'll answer your question too.<BR/><BR/>No, someone as dumb you needs the answer spoon-fed, obviously. Many Americans don't understand the hemisphere's Native history. They don't quite grasp the fact that a whole race of people lived here before them. In their hearts, they still think the land was uninhabited until Europeans arrived with their servants and slaves.<BR/><BR/>Or maybe Hollywood producers are just ignorant of the book, like you. Maybe they think a black co-star is more marketable than a Native co-star. Maybe no Indian is willing to play the ultimate Uncle Tomahawk: Friday the fawning foot-kisser.<BR/><BR/>We probably could come up with dozens of possible explanations. And none of them would change the fact that Friday is a Caribbean Indian. You don't know your aborigines from your ass if you don't understand that.<BR/><BR/>Why don't you ask your buddies in the industry about it? Maybe you'll finally realize how ignorant they are of Indians. Then maybe you'll stop worshiping them like a modern-day Friday.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01478763837213733775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29769707.post-9303440654405032842008-09-05T05:33:00.000-07:002008-09-05T05:33:00.000-07:00Here is DMarks's response to your errant posting, ...Here is DMarks's response to your errant posting, Russ:<BR/><BR/>http://www.deadmentellnotales.com/onlinetexts/robinson/crusoe.shtml<BR/><BR/>The original historic account which inspired <I>Robinson Crusoe</I> took place off Chile in the Pacific. Selkirk's tale was published as <I>The Englishman</I>. But this is pretty obscure. Rob never mentioned it, as he was discussing Robinson Crusoe, not the real historic account that only partially inspired it. I am guessing that you probably did not even know of <I>The Englishman</I> as you posted your comments which blended the facts of Selkirk's real Pacific account with the fictional <I>Robinson Crusoe</I> novel.<BR/><BR/>In doing so, you have created a personage that did not exist in either account: a Polynesian "Friday." There were no humans with Selkirk on his Pacific island. Selkirk's account only partially inspired Robinson Crusoe.<BR/><BR/>The actual "original novel" Robinson Crusoe placed him in the Caribbean area...eastern side of South America. [The] Atlantic.<BR/><BR/>The "Friday" character, an entirely fictional creation, was a Caribbean Native.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01478763837213733775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29769707.post-52052028027211304132008-09-05T02:22:00.000-07:002008-09-05T02:22:00.000-07:00Writerfella here -- But - but - but - Defoe's ...Writerfella here --<BR/> But - but - but - Defoe's book was only BASED on Selkirk's story and the location was changed for the novel. One must ask: IF Defoe's Friday ostensibly was Native American in the book, WHY then in the various filmic incarnations has Friday (or Saturday) been portrayed by the likes of actors such as Richard Roundtree, Jaime Fernandez, Elvis Payne, William Takaku, Victor Lundin, Fabian Cevallos, Nicholas Cazale, Herbert Waithe, Ahui Camacho, Yuri Lyubimov, Irakli Khizanishuili, Maro Sambuchi, Edward Alexander, Curtis 'Snowball' McHenry, Raymond Jamine, or even Maria Alba, Margarita Fischer, or Nancy Kwan? Even the upcoming NBC-TV version will have Zimbabwean actor Tongayi Chirisa in the role. And NONE of these actors even remotely has been Native American. Rob, you are barking up a tree that has no leaves...<BR/>All Best<BR/>Russ Bates<BR/>'writerfella'writerfellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00111681906238053379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29769707.post-46796821622660038402008-09-04T08:30:00.000-07:002008-09-04T08:30:00.000-07:00P.S. There is a San Blas in Baja California, Mexic...P.S. There <I>is</I> a San Blas in Baja California, Mexico. But I have no idea what it has to do with Indians or Polynesians.<BR/><BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Blas,_Baja_California_Sur<BR/><BR/>San Blas is a small rural community located in the municipality of La Paz in the Mexican state of Baja California Sur (BCS).<BR/><BR/>Every year, the community has a celebration to hail the return of the gray whale to its waters on the 24th and 25th of February.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01478763837213733775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29769707.post-80033151686995798482008-09-04T08:25:00.000-07:002008-09-04T08:25:00.000-07:00Now that Russ has informed us that the first great...Now that Russ has informed us that the first great Native American character in the English language is actually Polynesian, I wonder what other literary surprises he'll spring on us.<BR/><BR/>In English literature: Hamlet said, "All the world's a stage," not "To be or not to be." Ebenezer Scrooge hated Easter, not Christmas. Sherlock Holmes partnered with Dr. Kinsey, not Dr. Watson. Count Dracula drank milk, not blood. Orwell's dystopia took place in 2001, not 1984. Etc.<BR/><BR/>In American literature: The "scarlet letter" was Z, not A. Moby Dick was a giant squid, not a whale. Huckleberry Finn's Jim was a Chinese coolie, not a black slave. Alcott's "little women" were midgets, not sisters. Dorothy killed a nasty nun, not a wicked witch. Etc.<BR/><BR/>Are you having fun yet, Russ? Because I sure am. ;-)Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01478763837213733775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29769707.post-13230359329862740652008-09-04T06:34:00.000-07:002008-09-04T06:34:00.000-07:00Wikipedia notes the mispronunciation of "Crusoe" i...Wikipedia notes the mispronunciation of "Crusoe" in the <I>Gilligan's Island</I> theme song. So I almost made a similar comment. But I figured I had ridiculed Russ enough.<BR/><BR/>You're right...I don't see anything resembling a connection between San Blas Indians and Polynesians. Perhaps Russ is thinking of the claims that Polynesians reached South America and left a few traces there. Other than that, there's no (good) evidence of any non-Native culture in the Americas except the Vikings.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01478763837213733775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29769707.post-87133126452684528842008-09-04T05:02:00.000-07:002008-09-04T05:02:00.000-07:00The source of the three-syllable "Carusoe" is prob...The source of the three-syllable "Carusoe" is probably from the theme from "Gilligan's Island". Always a reliable source of information on classic adventure literature, right?<BR/><BR/>@Writerfella: "The San Blas natives of Baja California are Polynesian, not Natives Americans."<BR/><BR/>I tried to find information on them, as there are/were no "Natives" in the Americans who were not Indians, so to speak. I did find much information on the "San Blas Indians" of the Caribbean near Panama... no where near Baja, and also in the Atlantic, not the Pacific. Polynesians in the Atlantic? I would like to find out about pre-Columbian Polynesians who lived on the mainland of North America. I have never heard of such, and can't find anything on them.dmarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07269773990064736457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29769707.post-31504840506405690822008-09-04T03:27:00.000-07:002008-09-04T03:27:00.000-07:00So Friday explicitly says he's a Carib Indian. An...So Friday explicitly says he's a Carib Indian. And Crusoe explicitly says the island is in the gulf of the Orinoco River in Venezuela. Did you miss that part, Russ? <I>Duhhh</I>.<BR/><BR/>What I think you meant to say was: <I>You</I> don't know your aboriginals from a hole in the ocean. Or from the hole in your head from which you spout your nonsense. As I've just demonstrated.<BR/><BR/>Did you read where I said <I>Robinson Crusoe</I> was one of my childhood favorites? That means I probably know it much, much better than you do. I'll happily kick your butt on any Crusoe-related issue.<BR/><BR/>Next time do yourself a favor. Don't challenge me on the book without doing your homework first. Otherwise, I'll show you up again for the fool you so obviously are.<BR/><BR/>P.S. You spelled "Crusoe" wrong, dumbass. "Carusoe" must be an opera singer because there's no castaway by that name. Duh again.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01478763837213733775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29769707.post-6383986613035004462008-09-04T02:59:00.000-07:002008-09-04T02:59:00.000-07:00As for the island, you're even more wrong about th...As for the island, you're even more wrong about that, if that's possible. Again, here's a description of its location directly from the text:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.deadmentellnotales.com/onlinetexts/robinson/crusoe6a.shtml" REL="nofollow">The Life and Adventures of<BR/>Robinson Crusoe</A><BR/><BR/>By this I understood, that my Man Friday had formerly been among the Savages, who us'd to come on Shore on the farther Part of the Island, on the same Man eating Occasions that he was now brought for; and sometime after, when I took the Courage to carry him to that Side, being the same I formerly mention'd, he presently knew the Place, and told me, he was there once when they eat up twenty Men, two Women, and one Child; he could not tell Twenty in English; but he numbred them by laying so many Stones on a Row, and pointing to me to tell them over.<BR/><BR/>I have told this Passage, because it introduces what follows; that after I had had this Discourse with him, I ask'd him how far it was from our Island to the Shore, and whether the Canoes were not often lost; he told me, there was no Danger, no Canoes ever lost; but that after a little way out to the Sea, there was a Current, and Wind, always one way in the Morning, the other in the Afternoon.<BR/><BR/>This I understood to be no more than the Sets of the Tide, as going out, or coming in; but I afterwards understood, it was occasion'd by the great Draft and Reflux of the mighty River Oroonooko; in the Mouth, or the Gulph of which River, as I found afterwards, our Island lay; and this Land which I perceiv'd to the W. and N. W. was the great Island Trinidad, on the North Point of the Mouth of the River: I ask'd Friday a thousand Questions about the Country, the Inhabitants, the Sea, the Coast, and what Nation were near; he told me all he knew with the greatest Openness imaginable; I ask'd him the Names of the several Nations of his Sort of People; but could get no other Name than Caribs; from whence I easily understood, that these were the Caribbees, which our Maps place on the Part of America, which reaches from the Mouth of the River Oroonooko to Guiana, and onwards to St. Martha: He told me that up a great way beyond the Moon, that was, beyond the Setting of the Moon, which must be W. from their Country, there dwelt white bearded Men, like me; and pointed to my great Whiskers, which I mention'd before; and that they had kill'd much Mans, that was his Word; by all which I under stood he meant the Spaniards, whose Cruelties in America had been spread over the whole Countries, and was remember'd by all the Nations from Father to Son.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01478763837213733775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29769707.post-14146496676143841372008-09-04T02:54:00.000-07:002008-09-04T02:54:00.000-07:00But don't take my word for it. Since you don't tr...But don't take my word for it. Since you don't trust Wikipedia and apparently don't know how to use it, let's go directly to the book. Fortunately, the full text of <I>Robinson Crusoe</I> is available online.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.deadmentellnotales.com/onlinetexts/robinson/crusoe6a.shtml" REL="nofollow">The Life and Adventures of<BR/>Robinson Crusoe</A><BR/><BR/>Crusoe generally calls the Natives he meets "savages," not Indians. But after referring six times to Indians in general, he refers specifically to Friday and another of the Natives in front of him:<BR/><BR/>"But that which astonish'd him most, was to know how I had kill'd the other <B>Indian</B> so far off, so pointing to him, he made Signs to me to let him go to him, so I bad him go, as well as I could, when he came to him, he stood like one amaz'd, looking at him, turn'd him first on one side, then on t'other, look'd at the Wound the Bullet had made, which it seems was just in his Breast, where it had made a Hole, and no great Quantity of Blood had follow'd, but he had bled inwardly, for he was quite dead; He took up his Bow, and Arrows, and came back, so I turn'd to go away, and beckon'd to him to follow me, making Signs to him, that more might come after them."<BR/><BR/>Here's another reference to a Native in his presence:<BR/><BR/>"The Spaniard, who was as bold, and as brave as could be imagin'd, though weak, had fought this <B>Indian</B> a good while, and had cut him two great Wounds on his Head; but the Savage being a stout lusty Fellow, closing in with him, had thrown him down (being faint) and was wringing my Sword out of his Hand, when the Spaniard, tho' undermost wisely quitting the Sword, drew the Pistol from his Girdle, shot the Savage through the Body, and kill'd him upon the Spot; before I, who was running to help him, could come near him."Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01478763837213733775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29769707.post-54477232605993042512008-09-04T02:41:00.000-07:002008-09-04T02:41:00.000-07:00My god, you're ignorant.You're stupidly thinking o...My god, you're ignorant.<BR/><BR/>You're stupidly thinking of the real-life story upon which <I>Robinson Crusoe</I> was based. As usual, let Wikipedia set you straight:<BR/><BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinson_Crusoe<BR/><BR/>The story was most likely influenced by the real-life experience of Alexander Selkirk, a Scottish castaway who lived more than four years on the Pacific island that was called Más a Tierra (in 1966 its name was changed to Robinson Crusoe Island), Chile.<BR/><BR/>However, the description of Crusoe's island was probably based on the island of Tobago, since that island is near the mouth of the river Orinoco, and in sight of the island of Trinidad.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01478763837213733775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29769707.post-62410481674873522192008-09-03T23:33:00.000-07:002008-09-03T23:33:00.000-07:00Writerfella here -- Sorry, because writerfella...Writerfella here --<BR/> Sorry, because writerfella is celebrating a major story sale, the following post got placed on the wrong item. It should have read here that -- "Drunken or no, writerfella sees this item asmeaning that authorities have bought into the myth that Robinson Crusoe found his island haven in the Atlantic. But the original novel placed him off Valparaiso, Chile, which is on the western side of South America. Thus, Carusoe was in the Pacific Ocean and thus again, "Friday" was a Polynesian." There is no way, save for one, that Friday was Native American but rather was Asian in derivation. The San Blas natives of Baja California are Polynesian, not Natives Americans. Thus, whoever wrote the original article in this post doesn't know his aboriginals from a hole in the ocean...<BR/>All Best<BR/>Russ Bates<BR/>'writerfella'writerfellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00111681906238053379noreply@blogger.com