EXCLUSIVE VIDEO: Tiger Woods' Mistress Jaimee Grubbs' Rant Against Native AmericansTiger Woods' mistress Jaimee Grubbs was brought up on a Colville Native American Reservation in Washington state and her father is a Native American but that didn't stop the fame-seeker from ranting against her people in TV reality show audition tape obtained exclusively by RadarOnline.com.
"They get their free money, they drink and that's all that matters." Jaimee tells her interviewer about Native Americans.
After growing up on the reservation Jaimee said she will never date a Native American man. "They fought, they drank. They are very aggressive," she said on tape.
Jaimee came forward recently and revealed her nearly two year affair with Tiger Woods. She described herself as a cocktail waitress but RadarOnline.com discovered she's been working in a medical marijuana store.
Perhaps she wasn't aware that Tiger is reportedly one-quarter American Indian because on the audition tape she rants: "On the reservation, you either stay there and drink or you get out and try something new."
Something new like having an affair with a married man and then selling your story to the highest bidder? Jaimee has even hired a Los Angeles public relations firm to try to continue her 15 minutes of fame and line up TV interviews.
On the audition tape, she also says: "I like white boys, well tan white boys," and adds, "I hate long hair, Indians have long hair."Reactions on FacebookPredictably, Grubbs's rant set off a torrent of angry responses. Michelle Shining Elk led the charge with a posting on Grubbs:
Jaimee Grubbs is a tool (and I'm being nice!). This little girl needs a serious kick in the teeth! Seeing her name in the same sentence as our tribal name is a complete embarrassment and disgrace. Hearing her speak about our homeland and people in such a disrespectful manner shows she about a smart as a box of hair. What a joke, and such good oxygen is wasted on this mindless piece of work. For some reason a quote from the SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE came to mind when I watched this interview..."Jane, you ignorant slut!" But of course, I am replacing Jane's name with the obvious. I'm just saying is all! Hmmm...am curious how a trip back to the rez for her now would go--now that she's run her mouth like this?Others responded:
She is a Common whore and a Distraction she needs no more press. And Tiger Woods is Just a Golfer nothing else.
I agree she needs no more press, but I think our people need to know what this two-bit nothing is saying in her 1 minute of fame. And your description of her is why I am seething...she doesn't deserve the right, or honor to even say the word Colville.
What an idiot! I don't think being Tiger Wood's throw away whore is better then a bagger? Dumb bitch! Excuse my language but that pissed me off!! Especially the part about Native Men! I took that personal!!!
I always thought she was trashy too bad she must have a bad case of internal racism she hates herself.
I love my culture and heritage. This pitiful excuse for a woman should be ashamed of herself!
...and I sooooo disagree with her opinion about Native men ... there is nothing better! lol
LOL!!! She didn't grow up on the reservation and has no idea what reservation life is like...she forgot to announce to the press that her father's tavern was shut down and he was sent to prison because he and his staff were slinging cocaine out of there like it was kool-aid....that's what paid for that big beautiful house she grew up in...IN COULEE DAM...what a flippin' joke.
Damn b#$%##, I was hoping this would all be swept under the rug without anyone knowing she is a descendant of our tribe. Girls as dumb as box of rocks and want 30 minutes of fame instead of 15...stupid b.
The Sad thing is Her Parents and her Grand Parents have to live with this also ... I think by the time this is over she is either going to do a retraction or hide for a couple of years.
LMAO....did I hear her say she's a MEMBER of the Colville Tribe??????????? I looked it up.....NOT.....a twit...slut and all around liar.
What goes around comes around. I think she is going to learn this the hard way. And since when was Tiger a tall and tan white man? How on earth have I missed that all this time?
OMG! Does it surprise anyone that Tiger Woods would find someone with the same kind of internalized oppression he demonstrates?
This is insanity! This "women" (I use that word ahem loosely in this instance) really needs some education. How is it possible she grew up on reserve and has "friends" still on the rez?
That's a whole lot of ignorance, stupid girl. She is making a fool out of herself.
Ok Michelle, you know me...gotta add my 2 cents worth. I watched the clip and am so pissed!! The area she thinks she is too good for is the place I grew up...the people she is so much better than and above are folks I have called, are currently and always will be my friends. To hear her say those things make ME want to kick her ass...(how bout a good ole fashioned blanket party?? lol). I would pay big bucks to see her show her face anywhere near OUR hometown after that. Hope she gets a nice "before" picture....To say she is dumber than a box of hair and/or rocks is an insult to the hair and rocks. Reminds me of the saying "It is better to be silent and thought an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."Comment: People thought
Jessica Simpson was a dumb blonde for using the phrase "Indian giver." Jaimee "Money" Grubbs has proved to be ten times worse when it comes to offending Natives.
Here's a reminder of Tiger Woods's mixed heritage from
Wikipedia:
Woods was born in Cypress, California to Earl (1932-2006) and Kultida (Tida) Woods (born 1944). Earl, a retired United States Army lieutenant colonel and Vietnam War veteran, was of mixed African American, Chinese and Native American ancestry. Kultida (née Punsawad), originally from Thailand, is of mixed Thai, Chinese, and Dutch ancestry. This makes Woods himself one-quarter Chinese, one-quarter Thai, one-quarter African American, one-eighth Native American, and one-eighth Dutch. He refers to his ethnic make-up as “Cablinasian” (a syllabic abbreviation he coined from Caucasian, Black, (American) Indian, and Asian).As
Racialicious noted, it's interesting that we classify Tiger as African American when he's half Asian and only a quarter black. Another case of skin color trumping everything?
P.S. If Grubbs is half Native and Woods is a quarter Native, does that mean their affair was 3/8 Native?
Calling a woman a "whore" (as if prostitutes were sub-human; oddly enough their johns are deemed human) and a "bitch", no matter how emotionally insecure, racist and self-hating (self-racist) she is, does not reflect well on these people attacking her. They are misogynist- which in no way is better than racist.
ReplyDeleteSomething else: If her father really was a drug-addict and criminal, then I at least understand where her rejection of Indian men stems from (I don't condone it or agree with it, but I understand where her trauma stems from --> she needs counseling to get over these issues which have their root in her abusive, criminal father).
ReplyDeleteAnother comment:
ReplyDeleteHaving now seen the video- almost everything she says (apart from that she won't date Indian men) could be taken (same message, different words) from ANY Sherman Alexie interview. No biggie...
She is not enrolled and while she may be a descendant of our tribe it is a far stretch---the line is long and very, very thin. Which I immediately felt was the case watching her video, especially since see went from saying I'm Colville Indian to then referring to Colvilles as "they" within the first few sentences. Living on our Colville land no more makes you a Colville than does donning regalia or pow wowing automatically make you an Indian.
ReplyDeleteThis little girl clearly has a difficult time telling or knowing the truth, let alone recalling the truth.
Kat: I am not a misogynist. This has nothing to do with that from my standpoint. What this does have to do with -- is the land and place where I am from, where my people are from and still live are where I grew up. I won't stand idle while this little good for nothing makes disrespectful remarks about my people and home. Think you might feel the same and not so quick to defend this girl if she were making disparaging remarks about your heart (your people and homeland).
We all have our histories and experiences, but I don't believe in victim speak so your argument that she is a victim is only correct in that she is a victim of her own self inflicting behavior, mouth and the words she spews - no excuses.
It will all come around in the end for her. She has made many errors -- serious grievous errors. She might not see the errors of her ways as soon as most of us would like, but in time the consequences to her actions will meet her face to face. In the meantime, she will likely keep running her mouth for the almighty dollar but it will be her mouth and words that will take her to what will surely be a very ugly, painful and self inflicted demise.
I have said all I need to say on this matter.
@ Michelle Shining Elk:
ReplyDeleteThank you very much for your reply.
However: In my view, you have seriously cheapened/weakened any argument you want to make once you call someone "a slut" and call for violence against a woman ("she needs to be kicked in the teeth").
And the comments from other people were worse than yours (I liked your comments on Radar better though).
How would I feel if she was speaking about my people? Very upset, I agree with you.
But I would not call her "a slut", "a tramp" and say that she "needs whipping" (classy!)
What I would wish is for her to understand why racism is wrong and for her to get into healthy relationships rather than dating a married man and having unprotected (!) sex with him (and admitting that in the media).
And I still don't understand how her message differs from Alexie's?(Reservations are depressing places, poverty & alcoholism are rampant, you need to leave/ escape from it). Could you comment on that, please?
I just re-read this and realized that the last section sounds of what I wrote makes no sense.
ReplyDeleteJust to make that clear: Parts of what Grubbs said are very racist (the constant use of 'they' is disturbing, the stupid welfare/hand-out thing she says is even more disturbing, the Indian men comment).
But some of the comments seemed to disagree with the fact that she says negative things about the reservation in general, rather the racism (that's what I meant with the last paragraph).
Kat: Initially you didn't watch the video, but yet you felt compelled to make two comments based on the comments you had read written about this girl.Your arguments and excuses for her were based these comments and not really with an understanding as to why the comments were made, or the feelings of the people making them. In your third comment you say you watched the video, but I don't think you really "watched" the video because I don't think you "heard" the video.
ReplyDeleteIt seems your perception of this is that she is a "victim" but you don't really hold her accountable for her words in the video or public actions. Guess what, she is an adult, she knows what she is doing and what she is saying regardless of what you believe her background to be. It is no excuse. We all must be held accountable for our actions. It is obvious you are not an Indian, nor have much experience with Indians or reservation life -- other than what you have read and taken from a Sherman Alexie book. And just so you know...while Alexie is a published author, it does not make him the authority on reservation life, good or bad. Seriously. And I like Sherman Alexie.
So on that note, how does her messages differ from Alexie's?
1. I think I have made that very clear -- she is bashing my home, my relatives, my land, my tribal people, my community and I won't stand for that. Her words are ignorant.
2. While Alexie is entitled to his opinions about reservation life and has written on such from his own experiences it doesn't make it so all across the board. Were there problems of alcohol, abuse and poverty on my reservation...? Of course, which is not unlike other cultures and communities. Does it mean we need to run and escape from it to be whole or "normal" because it was written in a novel. ABSOLUTELY NOT!
And okay, so my comments about this girl came immediately after I watched the video and in the heat of the moment but they were far from literal. But yet, I would never redact my words and you can "view" that any way you want to. You took my figure of speech literally, it wasn't...and I think you know that too. You quoted me for the sake of argument, that's fine.
My life on the reservation wasn't rich in money (that's not what we are about), but it was rich in many other ways. Rich in our culture and traditions, and the love of my family and tribal members. We don't live and breath by the almighty dollar and selling oneself out and throwing a tribe and Indians (in general with stereotypical statements) under the bus the way this girl has -- for the sake of fame and money -- goes against everything we believe in, and are about. If she was truly Native and raised on the rez around our people like she claims, she would have had an understanding of these ways and it would have made her think twice about her words and actions.
Kat, it seems you are well versed in the psychology of certain behaviors; however, I don't think you are well versed in the dynamics of Indians, our internal relationships, reservation life, our cultural pride and respect for our Indian community. And that's really what this is about.
PART I:
ReplyDeleteThank you once more for your reply. I actually enjoyed reading it.
I guess there are 75 different things going on here at the same time, I'll try to make sense of it.
A) I do not believe in any way that Alexie or any other individual human could or should represent an entire people. What I meant was rather: Some of the commenters seemed to object to her saying anything negative at all about where she is from rather then certain statements that are racist. It sounded like: "You don't talk about that to outsiders. How dare you?!" rather than "Why are you being so racist and why are you stereotyping everyone and making idiotic comments on welfare?"
I know this "How dare you talk to others about us". It annoys me to no ends...
And those non-racist statements that she made, I have heard 100times before. If she found her childhood environment depressing and negative, she should be allowed to say so. Whether others from the same place like that or not.
This is what I was trying to get at: Why can Alexie say that and she can't? Since he says it in more fancy words or since he is not speaking about the same tribe (so very close to home, but not quite home- literally and figuratively in your case)?
Some of it sounded to me like "You can't speak to an out group on our in group."
B) I am well aware that you used those words "figuratively". But I don't think you or anyone else should have the right to do so. Period.
C) Exactly. I see her as a victim. And in general, I do not think one can or should hold victims accountable for their actions. This is a very general view for me and applies to pretty much anything (yup, also alcoholism). Victims need help and counseling. Their actions are determined not by rationality but by damage.
D) No, I am NOT "well versed" in any of this- Indian life, reservations etc etc. And I have never even read a whole Sherman Alexie book (wow, I must be a hopeless case ;). Nor am I sure that I 100% like him (depends on the day, seems far too cocky sometimes). [Random unrelated aside: This made me realize that all blogs that I follow have zero to do with my own cultural background weirdly enough. Curiosity maybe? This is the only Native-themed blog I follow though. And then this is not written by a Native American.]
Which brings me to the next point:
E) I cannot relate to your use of "We". Not at all. I have never felt part of a "We" based on something bigger than my immediate family, school class, university and smaller than 100 million people. In reality I don't feel any relationship to "where I am from" other than my nationality- I have lived in several countries e.g So I cannot relate even a tiny bit to your "we". The "that is not what we are about" soundly particularly odd to me. I could not say that about any group that I have ever been a part of (my family is too diverse, my school class etc etc).
Huge difference here then.
This is complicated in my personal case by my own experience: I reject the place that I spend the longest in (you could claim that as "where I am from") and have no contact with my family due to abuse. So this maybe makes me relate to some parts of Grubbs- rejecting where you're from, I mean.
In reality (to be precise), you could freely bash my family (they were severely abusive) and the place where I have lived longest. I would get upset about you (or anyone else) bashing my nationality or my former university though for that matter.
This might be another factor as to our disagreement here.
'My' ‘culture’ seems to emphasize individualism more than 'yours' (I am saying that noting that we both have several cultures). Thus some of your arguments don't 'work' for mine and vice versa.
I literally cringed when I read your "what we are about".
PART II:
ReplyDeleteF) "because it was in a novel": Thanks for the condescension. Incidentally, I believe that physical 'escape' (MOVE!!!) is the only thing to do if you live in a place with a high level of unemployment and poverty. This opinion of mine applies to ANY culture, ANY country, ANY time.
G)"If she truly was Native she wouldn't be doing this"... Ommm... Is there some sort of penalty card for this? There should be. You don't really believe that it would be absolutely impossible for someone with a strong tribal connection to act outside of the usual conventions of behavior of your community, do you? That sounds like "There are no gay men in Iran." It's possible that she has a low BQ, did not live directly on the reservation, is not enrolled or whatevs (what are the criteria du jour for being Native? There should be some sort of weather report on this with frequent status updates).
But you really can't imagine a situation where someone (anyone) would perfectly understand the conventions of a certain community and decide to disobey them? Really? Only someone who obeys the rules is part of it?
Hi all, regarding this Jaimee Grubbs person, I asked my cousin who is Colville and had lived in Nespelem for most of his life about her. He did know her, and she was a friend of his daughter while they were growing up. I also showed him the video on Radaronline, which he was appalled.
ReplyDeleteThis is what he told me; she is NOT a Colville Indian, her Mother is white and her Father is Indian, but, from some Tribe back east. He couldn't remember which one. His Uncle on his Mothers side sold a bar called the War Bonnet in Nespelem to Jaimee's Father. He also stated that Jaimee's Father had nothing to do with the Colville people and that there was a lot of drug use with her parents and a lot of drugs were sold out of that bar.
I think a lot of Jaimee's misguided attitude and opinions may stem from her own family life.
Anonymouse
Most people are criticizing Tiger Woods more than his mistresses, or criticizing them equally. I don't think this story is revealing any deep streak of misogyny.
ReplyDeletePeople are criticizing Grubbs and company more for their money-grubbing than their promiscuity. Hence the use of the word "whore," which implies sleeping with Woods for money.
For my answer to Kat's other question, see Alexie Can Criticize But Grubbs Can't?
ReplyDeleteKat: Your last lengthy reply (both parts) says it all - you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to our Indian culture and community. And yes I said "our." You just need to let this one go.
ReplyDelete@ Michelle Shining Elk:
ReplyDeleteThat is a very odd statement to make. I never claimed that I did. So in your opinion I am somewhat not allowed to have an opinion on this- and that's what you do instead of (like initially) replying to my arguments?
Wow... Just plain wow. I don't think anyone ever wins a debate by saying "Your not x, y or z [insert any group membership here]. So you can't have an opinion on this." But nice try. If I'd said that to every man who ever made a judgment on women or someone from another country on my nationality "You can't say anything on this" - that would not have changed anyone's mind (if I disagreed with them like you do with me). And it wouldn't have made any sense. "We" (humans) don't live in isolation from each other, so if you'd simply (again: like initially) explained to me why you disagree that would have made more sense. Cause the vast majority of the people who will see Jaimee's rant will know even less on Indians than I do- and I am certain you are aware of that.
I recently argued with a friend of mine from India on arranged marriage. I'm so glad she did not use your tactics and just say "You can't have an opinion on that- you're not from India."
@ Rob: I was not speaking about the Tiger Woods affairs in general, but on the specific comments you quoted. What's wrong with doing something for money? It's a motivation for many human actions.
ReplyDeleteAnd "whore" should never be used. Just like the n-word. Since when is prostitute a permissible insult? Rather than a profession or a social problem (judging on one's stand on this)? [Full disclosure- for me it is a profession. If you are dead against it, criminalize the johns]
Rob: "Most people are criticizing Tiger Woods more than his mistresses, or criticizing them equally"
ReplyDeleteProbably because, while everyone expects prostitute/groupies to be prostitute/groupies, no one expected Tiger to be like this. Tiger's held to a much higher standard: one he lived up to for a very long time, with a public that had a high opinion of him.
@ dmarks:
ReplyDeleteAnd it is Tiger who is a) more powerful (and can afford to buy women like a commodity) b) married, hence cheating and lying to his wife. He was also lying to each of his non-callgirl mistresses. The texts and emails he sent to Grubbs and Uchitel which have been published revealed to which extent he pretended that he was in love and serious about them.
@ Anonymouse:
ReplyDeleteThat's way creepy. So she says "I'm a Colville Indian" although her father is from a different tribe?! Geez, this lady seems to have even more identity issues than I thought...
I totally agree on the "a lot of Jaimee's misguided attitude and opinions may stem from her own family life" part and said so before:
"If her father really was a drug-addict and criminal, then I at least understand where her rejection of Indian men stems from (I don't condone it or agree with it, but I understand where her trauma stems from --> she needs counseling to get over these issues which have their root in her abusive, criminal father)."
I don't use words like "whore," "slut," or "bitch" myself. I usually limit my insults to a person's lack of intelligence or integrity. <g> I was simply suggesting why some people might consider Grubbs a sexual partner for hire.
ReplyDeleteSo you don't like the word "whore," Kat. Is it okay to call Grubbs a prostitute? How about a money-grubber or a golddigger? Or are any references to her financial arrangements off-limits?
People have made thousands of jokes about Tiger's sexual proclivities. In such situations, is it okay to criticize the man but not the woman? Or should Tiger's personal behavior be off-limits as well?
Men are almost always the ones in power, so of course they're going to get more attention. But our society used to vilify women who slept with powerful men rather than the other way around. Now the focus is on the misbehaving men--John Edwards, Eliot Spitzer, John Ensign, Mark Sanford, David Letterman, Tiger Woods, et al.--where it arguably belongs. The women are ignored and forgotten, not vilified and shamed.
P.S. I lean toward legalizing prostitution--at least in theory. I'm not sure it would work in reality.
I don't get it- I have read some of these posts, and I still don't get why some people feel the need to justify Grubbs behavior. Doesn’t anyone get tired of all these euphuisms? My gosh! Let’s pretend this was a person in politics that had said all this crap? Would we be making excuse about their horrible childhood? What if it was a gay white guy? What if, what if what if, what if- would your response be any different? Or is this coming from a place of feeling sorry for a “lost little girl” who was probably abused? Blah blah blah---
ReplyDeleteMost serial killers come from bad childhoods too. So do most pedophiles, do we extend them the same compassion?
The bottom line for me is, it doesn't change the fact that she should be judged and accountable for her actions. Regardless of her horrible childhood- almost everyone has had one- and we all still know right from wrong- and what she did was wrong-
No amount of therapy will change the affects of her choices- it will only explain why- but I don’t care why- I only care about her mess gets cleaned up. Who did she hurt? What about all those young Native people from her Tribe (allegedly) that might have heard her statements? We have the highest teen suicide- did her statements help this situation? What detrimental affects did her statements have on our youth? On our Old people? On the overall moral of all of Indian Country? This is no small issue- the rippling affect will be felt for a long time.
I keep hearing a few people say “pray for her” - Why on earth would I do that? I would rather pray for everyone suffering for her comments. I would rather pray for her family that has to live with this kind of person in their lives.
I watched an interview with her last night, Grubbs was with Woods for a long period of time (over a year?), and knew he was married- that’s WRONG. and now she wants to apologize? on camera how surprising, and pathetic-
Next there is absolutely no excuse for her comments about Native people, or Indian Men. Those were racist and demeaning and perpetuate many horrible stereotypes of all Native people. Yes, we all know of the realities of Indian Country, on and off the Rez, but her choice to not be part of the solution of these manifestations of historical traumas- is what makes her appear to be selfish, shallow, and a racist with a pretty smile.
These are not attacks- these are observed facts.
Whoever is defending her, first have to ask themselves, what exactly are you defending? And then I keep wondering if those that are defending her, also defend neo Nazis and all other racists, otherwise the inconsistency would make no sense.
@ Rob:
ReplyDelete“So you don't like the word "whore," Kat. Is it okay to call Grubbs a prostitute? How about a money-grubber or a golddigger? Or are any references to her financial arrangements off-limits?”
To me “whore” and “prostitute” are a profession, another term for a “sex worker” or “call girl” and should only be used in that manner. Definitely NOT for a woman who might receive gifts from her richer lover, which he is in no way obliged to give her. Prostitution, however, is a business transaction- a prostitute will generally not be physically attracted to the man, will always be paid, cannot decide which sex acts are performed (she is paid to do whatever he asks for), is not sexually aroused, is not in a romantic relationship with her john (also no contact like the phone calls, emails and letters that Rachel and Jaimee received, thus no emotional bond), is not in love with him or has a crush on him, has no positive emotions for him. She is quite literally selling the orifices of her body for him to use for his and only his sexual pleasure, not engaging in mutual sexual activities with a man she has a crush on or is in love with and personally wants, sexually and emotionally. I hope I made the difference crystal clear.
Personally, I believe that many romantic relationships contain a financial element as well. And that most human beings will be attracted to someone who is wealthier than they are- it simply makes sense evolutionary, that person will be able to provide for you and your children (both women and men). I thus don’t really find golddiggers offensive.
“People have made thousands of jokes about Tiger's sexual proclivities. In such situations, is it okay to criticize the man but not the woman? Or should Tiger's personal behavior be off-limits as well?”
No, it should not be off-limits. Not because he has a penis, but rather since he lied to both his wife and his girlfriends. He manipulated them. I was appalled when I read his emails and texts to Uchitel and Grubbs. He pretended to love them. I agree that one should not sleep with a married man or married woman. One of my best friend’s is currently having an affair with a married man- as keeps believing that he will leave his wife for her. She believes it. It annoys me to no end. He, however, is the predator, not she. Just as Tiger was the predator. But yes, unfortunately women also do that- pretend to love their affair and that they will end their marriage, when in reality it is rather about sex.
”P.S. I lean toward legalizing prostitution--at least in theory. I'm not sure it would work in reality”.
This left me slightly confused. So how do you define “works in reality” than? In which way has the prosecution of prostitution “worked”? What???
I am not for a legalization of prostitution (it is perfectly legal where I am from though), but rather for a prosecution only of johns, not of prostitutes. The second best option in my opinion is a complete legalization of prostitution, with a prosecution of the sex workers dead last.
@ Rob- sorry about the wall of text. Could you edit my comment please and insert some paragraphs? I don't know how this happened. Or can I edit the comment myself somehow and insert paragraphs for improved readability?
ReplyDeletePART I:
ReplyDelete“Let’s pretend this was a person in politics that had said all this crap? Would we be making excuse about their horrible childhood?”
No, you’re right, I wouldn’t.
Albeit for a wildly different reason- a politician has much more power than Grubbs has and likely will ever have. A politician should know better (education, life experience etc etc). And, very importantly, a racist politician should be stopped by his party. Grubbs is alone in this- no party to stop her from moronic behavior.
“What if it was a gay white guy?”
I am not biased against gay white guys (which in this blog would seem… um… misplaced to say the least). Are you?
Whether that is justified or not, I would treat a gay person less harshly than a straight person. I’m just being honest here. I am rationally aware that this might not make sense. I am straight myself and I generally find myself being more “understanding” (not condoning though) of behaviors that I disagree with by any type of minority.
“Most serial killers come from bad childhoods too. So do most pedophiles, do we extend them the same compassion?”
I don’t know who “we” is. However: You’re not REALLY making the absolutely outlandish comparison of Grubbs to a serial killer and a pedophile?!
I am not primarily concerned with judging serial killers and pedophiles- what I am mainly interested in is preventing them from committing these heinous acts and in order to do so I have to understand where their behavior is coming from. I am an ardent supporter of castration for pedophiles (not chemical, I am talking of the “real deal”).
However, even concerning pedophiles and serial killers for many people things are not only black or white. Unfortunately, people judge pedophiles mainly in the abstract only. In their own family, it is still mostly ignored and the victim is told to shut up. Statistically, most family members look the other way. Especially regarding the recent Polanski case, your statement seems out of touch with reality; many people constantly referred to Polanski’s difficult life (full disclosure: I was appalled by people’s defending of the perpetrator rather than the victim). A similar “she should just shut up” thing happened with Mackenzie Phillips.
I don’t know about yours, but my world is not Black and White. And this applies to serial killers and pedophiles, just as it does to everything else: Examples- I have seen ‘Monster’ (film based on true case with Charlize Theron). I had nothing but compassion for the main character, the serial killer. If my life story would have been hers (raped by grandfather from age 2; left in the woods to die), I probably too would have ended up a serial killer. Luckily enough, I was more fortunate. Some children and teenagers also abuse minors. I do not judge them in the same manner as adult perpetrators.
PART II:
ReplyDelete“The bottom line for me is, it doesn't change the fact that she should be judged and accountable for her actions. Regardless of her horrible childhood- almost everyone has had one- and we all still know right from wrong- and what she did was wrong-“
I agree mainly with this. It should be made clear to her publicly why her statements where wrong. And yes, she should be held accountable.
“No amount of therapy will change the affects of her choices- it will only explain why- but I don’t care why“
That sounds odd- alcoholism in Indian Country is generally explained by the hurt and damage of the past (and present unfortunately). Should I also “not care why”? Am I then not obfuscating cause and effect? When is it okay to “not care why”?
I abhor Grubbs’ misguided statements (the Indian men thing, the welfare statement etc etc). Yet I still (at the same time!) feel sorry for her. For me, it is possible to do both.
“I only care about her mess gets cleaned up. Who did she hurt? What about all those young Native people from her Tribe (allegedly) that might have heard her statements? We have the highest teen suicide- did her statements help this situation? What detrimental affects did her statements have on our youth? On our Old people? On the overall moral of all of Indian Country? This is no small issue- the rippling affect will be felt for a long time.”
Agreed.
“I keep hearing a few people say “pray for her” - Why on earth would I do that? I would rather pray for everyone suffering for her comments. I would rather pray for her family that has to live with this kind of person in their lives.“
Should you be Christian, that would not make sense (forgiveness, love thy enemy, other cheek, pray for lost souls etc).
“Next there is absolutely no excuse for her comments about Native people, or Indian Men. Those were racist and demeaning and perpetuate many horrible stereotypes of all Native people. Yes, we all know of the realities of Indian Country, on and off the Rez, but her choice to not be part of the solution of these manifestations of historical traumas- is what makes her appear to be selfish, shallow, and a racist with a pretty smile.“
Agreed. But there is a difference between “excuse” and “explanation” (origin of a certain behavior). I do NOT think her behavior is acceptable in any way, yet I still feel sorry for her.
“And then I keep wondering if those that are defending her, also defend neo Nazis and all other racists, otherwise the inconsistency would make no sense.”
Again: No Black and White (pun intended) here. I ALWAYS object to racism. Yet my judgment of the racist him- or herself will most certainly depend on the circumstances. Example: Have you heard of ‘Prussian Blue’? They were (are?) a music band made up of two girls whose entire family (mum, dad, grandparents) consist of White supremacists. They are racist. Yet I feel sorry for them, cause they have been both victims (of brainwashing) and are perpetrators at the same time. Obviously this does not mean that they should have any right to make their statements.
My bottom line: It is possible to be both victim and perpetrator. Grubbs’ statements were deeply racist and damaging. I was just trying to understand where her racism (and self-hatred) is coming from.
Argh! I don't understand why it keeps messing up the paragraphs... Wish I could edit it.
ReplyDeleteJust stumbled on this:
ReplyDeleteJaimee discussion on Indianz.Com
Tiger Woods, the biracial Mulatto... Those two posters definitely count differently until "two". o_O
Ms.Kat, we are not talking about an abused minor- we are talking about an adult-
ReplyDeleteWhether she is a victim or not, she is responsible for her choices, and she has now identified herself as an abuser- verbal emotional abuse, has long standing affects.
@ Corine68:
ReplyDeleteWhy can I not condemn her statements and still see her as a victim AS WELL at the same time?
Yes, she is legally an adult. However, why would anyone *suddenly* get rid of their emotional baggage and their psychological scars once they hid the magic 18???
But hey: You and me, we agree that she is racist (self-racist maybe). And that's what matters.
To Kat and Elk, I can see both sides here. This is a very sensitive issue, and Grubbs defonately has the right to say how she feels even if she doesn't mind the entire world is going to dissect every word that comes out of her mouth. She is obviously an uneducated women, who doesn't think clearly, one who makes bad decisions, like sleeping with a married man to top on her dysfunctions.
ReplyDeleteI live in Washington, I am not native...I work for a local tribe, and have many tribal friends that live on and off of the "rez", and I don't think I have ever heard someone speak of their heritage in that way. Even if there are facts that the culture of Natives have certain tendencies of alcoholism, or violence in native men. No one has ever had the nerve to openly speak of and point a finger toward where they come from in such a demeaning way.
I do however firmly believe we (all people in general) are entitled to feel and believe however we deem necessary. But, once you openly say what you believe in public,in regards to personal and racial issues, you should beware of any consequences behind any derogatory or predjudice comments or statements you have said. You no longer can take those back. The hurt you may have caused the damage has been done. And you will have to answer and back up what you speak, no matter how you feel about other cultures,this is always going to be a sensitive topic.
The world could have gone without knowing her personal opinions of the tribal members where she lived, or her reasoning why she likes only white men. Since she prefers a certain type of male companionship, thats all we needed to know. Personal preference is to each individuals discretion and choice, regardless how you came to those likes and dislikes in relationships with friends, lovers or so forth.
Where does Tiger Woods come into place with this womans up bringing and horible child hood. It doesn't, so the interviewers and t.v. people need to stick to whats at hand here, the infidelaties that lie between Tiger Woods and her.
She is a disgrace to herself, but give it a few months, she will hate herself for all of this.
She isn't so much ignorant, as someone commented, but, hates her life, and is trying to justify what she did wrong with all of these sad stories.
The reality is that no one really cares why she is who she is, she f***ked a billionaire and is cashing in on the disgrace he has put on his family all across the nation. So now she wants usto know her personal story..??? Why does America need to feed this kind of hype? Tiger Woods is getting what he deserves,what does a man think when he begins an affair with a person such as Grubbs? Really,is he only thinking with his dick? Wow!!!His wife is beautiful, smart, birthed his kids...are people so addicted to multiple sex partners? Why?
I was very upset by what Jaimee Grubbs said about the Colville Reservation and, after I thought about it, I figured her motive was a grub$take. People driven by greed will do most anything including making others look bad, like the early colonizers in the Americas did to our native people.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what Grubbs would've said if a couple Indian men wearing long braids were seated on the panel. Knowing historical racism still exists in this world, she could have been telling them what she thought they wanted to hear.
The spotlight was on her, the spotlight was on racism; the putdown was on my people and I resent that.