Educating Stephen about Islam

In Armenian and Indian Genocides, reader Stephen made a bunch of false or misleading claims about Islam. As usual with Stephen's rants, these comments were almost totally unrelated to the subject at hand. If you ask me, he posted them primarily to demonstrate his holier-than-thou attitude to the world.

His main source of info seems to be the ultra-conservative TheReligionofPeace.com. I could go down the list of this site's claims and rebut them in detail, but they're irrelevant to the genocide issue. But here are a few quick 'n' dirty points:

The Qur'an doesn't say women are equal to men? Neither does the Bible.

Islam hasn't tolerated other religions? Neither has Christianity.

The 1,400 years of Muslim crimes aren't much different from the 2,000 years of Christian crimes. They tell us little or nothing about what Muslims or Christians believe today.

Islamic law is as complex and varied as the common law it's been compared to. Here, learn something about it:
There is tremendous variety in the interpretation and implementation of Islamic Law in Muslim societies today. Liberal movements within Islam have questioned the relevance and applicability of sharia from a variety of perspectives; Islamic feminism brings multiple points of view to the discussion. Some of the largest Muslim countries, including Indonesia, Bangladesh and Pakistan, have largely secular constitutions and laws, with only a few Islamic Law provisions in family law. Turkey has a constitution that is officially strongly secular.

That slavery, terrorism, and totalitarianism may occur under Islam is equally true of Christianity.

In case you're as clueless as you seem, most Christian lands were ruled by monarchs and dictators for 1,800 of their 2,000 years. Most Islamic lands have been ruled by monarchs and dictators for only 1,400 years. In another 400 years, we can compare the average Islamic nation with the average Christian nation of the year 1800.

"The Qur'an only contains what is presented as the literal words of Allah"? Many Christians believe every word of the Bible literally comes from God.

As for your selective quoting of verses from the Qur'an, it's almost worthless as evidence. I might consider it relevant if you tallied the violent passages in the Qur'an and the Bible and expressed them as percentages of the whole. Until then, don't bother telling us what you think the Qur'an says.

After you tell us how much of each book is violent, tell us what percentage of Muslims believe the Qur'an literally and what percentage believe it figuratively. Because many Christians and Muslims don't take their scriptures literally, you know. If 1.3 billion Muslims think and act peacefully even when the Qur'an tells them not to, I'd say Islam is peaceful by definition.

In conclusion, if your point was that Islam is as barbaric as Christianity, I'll agree. If your point is that Islam is worse, I can only conclude you're ignorant about the countless examples of rape, slavery, murder, warfare, totalitarianism, conquest, and genocide instigated by Christians. So which is it?

More nonsense from Stephen

Some responses to your ridiculous claims about Muslims:Here's the thing; I'm talking about Islam not muslims in generalUh-huh, sure you are.

So what are you saying? That you understand Islam better than 1.3 billion Muslims? That 1.3 billion Muslims don't realize they practice a "religion of hate"? Or what, exactly?

Since Muslims believe in Islam, the distinction you've made is worthless. How can Muslims be "good" if they sincerely believe in a religion that's "bad"? And if Muslims are "good" even though Islam is "bad," doesn't that prove the religion is harmless? Yes, it does.I think the movie the departed is stupid but I don't think departed fans in general are stupid, catch my drift?Yep, you're trying to dissemble about your prejudice so you won't look as bigoted as you really are. At this point, I think we all understand how you try to mask your "white pride" arguments as common sense.

If fans continue to claim The Departed is good even after you've informed them it's stupid, bad, and causes real-world harm, how are you attacking the movie but not the fans? Whether you realize it or not, you're implying they're evil for tolerating an evil religion. And you're certainly implying they're stupid and ignorant for practicing Islam, which is an insult in its own right.

That you're too cowardly to state your views upfront is consistent with your cowardly refusal to sign your full name. Luckily, I'm here to spell out the implications of your views for you.

9/11 worse than Inquisition?Except that in at least one year more people were killed by Islamic terrorists (which is supported by their twisted book) than the Spanish inquisition.It's stupid and statistically invalid to compare events in the 1500s and in 2001 without considering the base populations. It's stupid, period, to limit Christian crimes to the Inquisition. Not when Christians were responsible for the two greatest examples of genocide in history.

More to the point, your claim is apparently false on the face of it. Here, learn about the Inquisition:

How many people were tortured to death during the Spanish Inquisition?Death tolls are given by historians such as Will Durant, who, in The Reformation (1957), cites Juan Antonio Llorente, General Secretary of the Inquisition from 1789 to 1801, as estimating that 31,912 people were executed from 1480-1808. He also cites Hernando de Pulgar, a secretary to Queen Isabella, as estimating 2,000 people were burned before 1490. Philip Schaff in his History of the Christian Church gave a number of 8,800 people burned in the 18 years of Torquemada. Matthew White, in reviewing these and other figures, gives a median number of deaths at 32,000, with around 9,000 under Torquemada. R. J. Rummel describes similar figures as realistic, though he cites some historians who give figures of up to 135,000 people killed under Torquemada. This number includes 125,000 asserted to have died in prison due to poor conditions, leaving 10,000 sentenced to death. (Death rates in medieval and early modern prisons were generally very high, thanks in part to inadequate sanitary conditions and a poor diet.) There are no death toll figures available for the massacres of 1391, 1468 or 1473. These numbers will likely never be known.Maybe you meant to say that Christian soldiers have killed more civilians in Iraq than Christian torturers killed during the Inquisition. If so, you'd be correct, finally.

Jesus trumps God?Also Jesus clearly rejected the old testament teachings (ie let he who is without sin cast the first stone).You can't "clearly reject" the word of God. The Old Testament is still part of the Bible and many Christians still believe it. Having both books in one volume sends a mixed message at best. It lets Christians pick and choose whether they believe the word of God or the word of Jesus. They're free to make up their own religion based on their selective reading of both testaments.

Homosexuality is a good example of this. The Old Testament condemns men lying with men, but Jesus said all you need is love. He didn't say one word about homosexuality, yet many Christians believe homosexuality is a sin. How can that be if Jesus's command to love thy neighbors is the final word?Well it is barbaric, what else do you call a religion that preaches bigotry, allows slavery (slavery existed openly in Saudi Arabia until the 1960s), tells people to kill homosexuals etc?"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." --Leviticus 20:13.

I call it Christianity. What do you call it?Except that the teachings of Christ don't support such actions (Islam does)"I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword." --Jesus, quoted in Matthew 10:34.

Are you really as ignorant as you sound? Christians have used the Bible to justify 2,000 years of crimes against humanity. If you're too stupid to understand how Christian theologians and politicians have applied their religion to the real world...well, the rest of us aren't.and while it was horrible the deaths in Bosnia and Kosovo are dwarfed by the Armenian and Darfur genocides.Which in turn are dwarfed by the Christian-based genocides I mentioned above. Sorry, bud...you lose the battle of the genocides. And you lose the debate.

Conclusion

What a surprise your comments were...not. The person who defends his white ancestors against charges of genocide is also bigoted against Muslims. The only real surprise is that I haven't caught you telling us how superior Western civilization is to Native civilizations. Maybe I just haven't been paying enough attention to your racist comments.

For more on the subject, see Kill Those Towelheads! and Brotherly Love, American Style.

Below:  Islam...



and Christianity.

Review of LEVEL UP

Sean Muir of the Healthy Aboriginal Network send me a low-res PDF of LEVEL UP, another of their issue-oriented comic books. The subject this time: staying in school.In Level Up, Terry is contemplating dropping out of school. But before he does, he's asked to spend some time with his cousin Dave, a successful game developer. Rather than lecture Terry, Dave makes the importance of school relatable--he compares education to moving up a level in a video game.Rob's review

LEVEL UP was written and drawn by Steve Sanderson, who also did DARKNESS CALLS and AN INVITED THREAT. With his third comic, we're beginning to see a pattern. All three stories have a similar structure:

Kid has a problem. Elder tries to set him straight. Kid enters a fantasy world where he triumphs over a pop-culture menace. Kid applies the lessons he's learned and resolves his problem.

As usual, Sanderson's cartoony art is very good, and fitting for a youth-oriented comic. The only thing I question is making cousin Dave cross-eyed a few times for no good reason.

As usual, it's nice to see totally modern Natives living like everyone else. This is almost unheard of in Native-themed comics. If such comics are set in contemporary times, they're likely to feature an angry veteran, a downtrodden reservation, and casino. (See SCALPED for examples of these stereotypes.)

That's the upside of the Healthy Aboriginal Network's comics. But it also has a downside:

As usual, the organization's comic has nothing specific about a location, a tribe, or even an ethnic group. The only sign of Terry's being Native is calling his grandfather "Mosom," which I presume is a title of respect. Other than that, he could belong to any brown-skinned group--from Latino to Arab to Asian Indian.

As usual, I consider this a flaw--an example of weak storytelling. I believe the organization's position is that the government agency funding the comics requires them to be "generic." But I've seen no signs that the writers and editors have tested this misguided policy. Art is about pushing the boundaries, not doing what someone tells you to do.

Education = video game?

I think LEVEL UP is a bit less successful than Sanderson's previous efforts. Why does Terry want to drop out of school? Because he sees a rapper on TV and thinks he can emulate him, even though he has no skills. This seems like a plot you'd see on a five-minute cartoon or skit for preteens, not a serious story for young adults.

The video-game analogy doesn't work too well. First, Dave tells Terry that school is boring. Then Dave says going without math, science, and English is like going without armor, weapons, and powers in a video game. Terry's unarmed video-game surrogate proceeds to get wiped out by the enemy.

Then Dave switches gears. If you graduate from high school, he says, you get to go to college, where learning is fun and there are girls at parties. In fact, getting good grades and a diploma is like having a full complement of weapons and powers. Terry's now-armed video-game surrogate proceeds to vanquish the enemy and move to the next level.

To summarize, education is boring in high school but becomes fun in college, mainly because there are co-eds who like to party. That makes staying in school more appealing than being a rap star with a mansion, a car, and a girl in a hot tub. In fact, getting an education is exactly like blowing up bad guys in a video game, and that's a lot of fun.

I dunno...if the Healthy Aboriginal Network was aiming this simplistic message at preteens, it might be effective. But Terry is a high-schooler, which suggests the target audience is high-schoolers too. I'm not sure that LEVEL UP's simple message will impress kids that old.

So LEVEL UP is another comic book with modern but generic Natives. With an important but obvious message. In short, it's a mixed bag of a comic.

For more on the Healthy Aboriginal Network's work, see the Gang-Prevention Comic-Book Videos and Residential-School Comic-Book Videos. For more on the subject in general, see Comic Book Featuring Indians.

Multicultural perspective for judges

Stanley Fish explains why it's good for judges to have "empathy." His reasoning applies more broadly to many situations. It suggests the value of having a multicultural perspective on things:

What Kind of Judges Do We Want?In fact--and this is what Sotomayor means when she talks about reaching a better conclusion than a white man who hasn’t lived her life--rather than distorting reality, perspectives illuminate it or at least that part of it they make manifest. It follows that no one perspective suffices to capture all aspects of reality and that, therefore, the presence in the interpretive arena of multiple perspectives is a good thing. In a given instance, the “Latina Judge” might reach a better decision not because she was better in some absolute, racial sense, but because she was better acquainted than her brethren with some aspects of the situation they were considering. (As many have observed in the context of the issue of gender differences, among the current justices, only Ruth Bader Ginsburg knows what it’s like to be a 13-year-old girl and might, by virtue of that knowledge, be better able to assess the impact on such a girl of a strip-search.)

Throughout the evening, John Payton reminded us that these are not merely theoretical points. He read a chilling sentence from Herbert Wechsler’s influential essay “Toward Neutral Principles.” Wechsler is making the point that laws mandating the separation of the races burden both races equally: “In the days when I was joined with Charles Houston in a litigation in the Supreme Court before the present building was constructed, he did not suffer more than I in knowing that we had to go to Union Station to lunch together during the recess.”

One might wonder whether Houston would equate the lunchtime inconvenience suffered by his colleague with the humiliations he had to endure every day of his life. One might be amazed, as Payton was, by Wechsler’s blindness to what he is saying. He was a great legal mind, but something was missing. You can call it empathy or (as some in the audience suggested ) you can call it understanding or imagination. I called it hearkening to the spirit rather than the letter. But whatever you call it, everyone present that evening agreed that it was what we wanted.Comment:  For more on the subject, see Sotomayor, Empathy, and Sterilization and Sotomayor Practices "Tribal Justice"?

Ed McMahon as Tonto

The NY Times compared Ed McMahon to Tonto in its obituary for the sideman:

Ed McMahon, Top Second Banana, DiesBut it was in the role of the faithful Tonto to Carson’s wry Lone Ranger that Mr. McMahon made his sideman’s mark. After he rolled out his introduction like a red carpet for the boss, and after Carson delivered his nightly monologue, Mr. McMahon, in jacket and tie, would take his seat on the couch beside the host’s desk, chat and banter with Carson a bit before the guests came on and almost invariably guffaw at his jokes, even when he was the butt of them. When the guests did arrive, he would slide over to make room and rarely interrupt.Comment:  I'm not sure it's wise to compare someone to Tonto even if the comparison is fairly accurate. Consider the following:But it was in the role of the faithful black sharecropper to Carson’s wry white plantation owner that Mr. McMahon made his sideman’s mark.That's also fairly accurate, but it seems less palatable.

The reason for not comparing people to Tonto is that Tonto was the white man's stereotype of what a good Indian should be. Tonto the fictional character may have chosen to be a sidekick, but Tonto the real person probably wouldn't. He'd be wondering why they were catching outlaws while US soldiers were massacring his fellow Indians. He'd be asking himself if he shouldn't join up with Crazy Horse, Geronimo, or Quanah Parker.

McMahon was subservient by his own choice. Tonto was subservient by his white creators' choice. Comparing McMahon to Tonto implies Tonto was happy to be subservient. That it was a natural and healthy choice for an Indian like him.

Educating Gyasi Ross about Pocahontas

A commentary by a Blackfeet Indian with my responses interspersed:

Blog:  The thing about skins

3.0: Skin night at the movies

By Gyasi RossAnother thing that my family absolutely loves--unabashedly--is seeing other Skins on television or in the movies. The Skin actor/actress doesn’t even have to be a big part--bit roles are just as much sources of pride. Oh yeah, and cartoons work too! We were ecstatic to see the small, yet inspiring role of the Alaska Native lady with the really, really, really big breasts in “The Simpsons” movie. John Redcorn from King of the Hill and Apache Chief from the Superfriends? My heroes. My non-athletic mother, to this day, does three back flips whenever she sees Chief Bromden in “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.”

Big role or large role, either way, my mom excitedly points them out and asks--“You know that he’s Indian, right?” Of course, mom; we used to have the video disc.It's a sad commentary on the state of the arts that these characters still excite Ross. They should be minor examples of Indians on the screen, not major ones.

It's just a movie?My friends are slightly different than me and my family. It seems like many of them love to dissect and analyze every single Skin role--on television or in movie--for accuracy and stereotypes. Not that seeking accuracy is bad in any way--it’s just that for me, movies are movies, not documentaries.OMG...is this pathetic "it's just a [fill in the blank]" argument ever going to go away?

Why distinguish between a movie and a documentary, Gyasi? Documentaries have a point of view and are filtered through a filmmaker's biases. As we learned in our discussion of Wounded Knee, a fictional movie can be more accurate than a "nonfictional" documentary.

Heck, why distinguish between a movie and anything? A sports logo is just a sports logo. An advertisement is just an advertisement. A statue is just a statue. A school lesson is just a school lesson. A book is just a book.

Apparently Ross thinks that no one has ever formed an opinion of Indians based on mere words and images. No, Americans remain neutral and openminded about Indians until they meet one in the flesh. When they see and hear a real Indian, they conclude that Indians are just like everyone else.

Therefore, it's impossible for Americans to think Indians are savage, primitive, uncivilized, lazy, good-for-nothing, stoic, drunk, mystical, ecology-minded, noble, greedy, corrupt, or rich. Why? Because these things generally aren't true in reality and Americans don't know about Indians from any other source. No American has ever learned a Native stereotype from a movie or other form of media.

How naive and foolish can you get?

Pocahontas is "hot"?For example, once upon a broke Friday night, one of my closest friends from Acoma Pueblo and I got into a heated debate about the Disney movie, “Pocahontas.” I didn’t realize the hornet’s nest that I got myself into--I spoke glowingly of the movie. I told her how much my nieces LOVED the movie and that I frankly thought that, for a cartoon character, Pocahontas was extremely hot. Almost Jessica Rabbit hot.Yeah, that's what young girls in America need...more images of women as sex objects. Today's women are growing too smart, strong, and independent. They need to embrace their inner "princess" and become more like Disney girls who need princes to save them.

"Hotness" is a pretty lame reason to like a Native character. So what if Pocahontas is hot? The issue is whether she's a reasonably accurate representation of the historical figure, not whether she's babe-alicious.But my friend didn’t agree. In fact, I’m sure she used a few curse words when she told me how disgraceful and bad the depiction of Pocahontas really was. My dear friend talked about how Pocahontas didn’t really marry John Smith but that Pocahontas had been captured. And while captured, Pocahontas met John Rolfe--her future hubby. The truth was very different than the Disney cartoon’s depiction of how she met her husband. Yes.Pocahontas didn't marry John Smith--either in the movie or in real life. But thanks for proving the critics' point. We're so used to Disney's "princess" mentality that we assume Pocahontas the Indian princess must've married John Smith the prince-like hero. Ross believes he saw this on the screen even though he didn't.

Seeing a Native on screenAnyway, my wonderful and brilliant friend from Acoma was incredibly upset about the artistic license that was taken in the movie. And I tend to like all Disney cartoons (“Lion King”? “Mulan”?)--but I liked this one ever more because 1.) Pocahontas was hot; and because 2.) There was an image of a Skin on the big screen. Sure she was animated--but she was undoubtedly a Skin. When it came down to it, my Acoma friend and I simply had two very different takes on the movie. And my argument, “It’s a cartoon. … I doubt the tree really spoke to her and the raccoon seems slightly unrealistic as well,” was not gaining any momentum. Mind you, my main point was simply that my nieces and little sisters and lots and lots of other little Skin girls finally got to see a Skin woman on television.Fantasia, Song of the South, and Peter Pan are just cartoons too. Should we accept and applaud their racist images as well? Is there any instance of racism Ross is willing to criticize?

Ross could buy or rent dozens of movies and TV shows if he wanted his nieces to see Native women on the screen. Try Dreamkeeper, Into the West, or The Emperor's New School for images of strong Native women. It's ridiculous to say we should accept Pocahontas because it's the only way Native girls can see themselves represented.And I was happy for that. But maybe I shouldn’t have been. Maybe I should be offended when a portrayal of our people comes on television or at the movie theater that isn’t 100 percent correct.With his black-and-white thinking, Ross may be spending too much time around non-Indians. There are more choices than 1) love it uncritically or 2) hate it and scorn it.

How about taking a nuanced position like mine? I like Pocahontas for its storytelling and artistry. I dislike it for its mistakes and stereotypes. I criticize the movie's problems but don't take them personally or get offended by them.

Pocahontas a role model?Maybe the hundreds and hundreds of Pueblo and Navajo girls who congregated at the Gallup movie theater when “Pocahontas” came out were wrong to enjoy the movie.I wonder how many of these hundreds of Native girls had problems with self-esteem, weight and body issues, dropping out of school, teen-age pregnancy, substance abuse, depression and suicide, etc. I wonder how many of these problems came from not being able to live up to Hollywood's image of Indian women as thin and beautiful.

And what about the 99% of the viewers who aren't Native girls? Does Ross have anything to say about them? Does he understand that non-Indian children are more unschooled and impressionable than adults like him?

Here are how some non-Indians reacted to Pocahontas. From Steve Harvey's column in the LA Times, c. 1995-96:When a portrait of a crinkly eyed Smith was shown on "Biography," our daughter Sarah, age 7, said, "Oh, my God! He's got a beard! He's almost bald!"

When a portrait of the Indian princess was shown, Sarah took one look at the somewhat plump, round-faced child and declared: "That is not Pocahontas."

During one commercial break, however, she exclaimed, "There they are," pointing triumphantly to the screen, where the voluptuous Indian maiden and surfer John were indeed frolicking. It was an ad for the animated movie.From "Native Americans Face Stereotypes," The Post (Ohio University), 11/1/01:During recess, a couple of boys danced around her singing a Pocahontas song, "Savages! Savages! Barely even human," he said.Perhaps Ross should journey from school to school to educate these kids about the media. "Why are you yelling racist epithets at an Indian child? Don't you realize Pocahontas was just a movie? What's the matter with you? Next you'll be telling me you admire people and buy things just because you saw them on TV."

Love it or protest it?Maybe they should’ve been more politically savvy and protested the movie.Another too-pat answer. One can understand the media's influence--can be culturally and politically savvy--without getting outraged and protesting. Just be aware of the media's overt and covert messages. If your thinking begins and ends with "Pocahontas is hot" and "hot women are good," you really aren't thinking.Maybe my family, and people like us, are too simplistic and just don’t know any better to be offended.Too simplistic? Just don't know any better about the causes and effects of Native stereotyping? Yes and yes. You said it, Gyasi.

For more on the subject, see the Stereotype of the Month contest and The Best Indian Movies.

Below:  "Girls, try to become thin and beautiful like me. Starve yourself, binge and purge, whatever it takes. If you do, I promise you'll find your Prince Charming."

Debating Lynn Collins as Silver Fox

A debate on whether the non-Native actress Lynn Collins should've played the Blackfeet woman Silver Fox in Wolverine.

Why is she playing a Native American?by MariaTie (Wed Apr 15 2009 06:31:42)

Another racist act from Hollywood. So much for the Pro-Indian stance.

by licketysplits (Tue Apr 28 2009 01:51:33)

I think the issue is there are so few roles for people who are a visible minority that when roles come up and they cast a white person in a role that asks for a minority its kinda a low blow... I agree with the original poster.... Hollywood needs to diversify!

by luscious_lady52 (Fri May 1 2009 12:41:06)

After seeing the movie... I was a bit put off at how they were trying to play off the Native American background of Silverfox. If you look at the actress. She is wearing "Native American" jewelery and telling Wolverine a tribal story about the moon.... Come on now...

I felt like they were pushing it there. Why even touch on it if you weren't going to go for a Native American actress? A talk show my sister was watching the other day with NA actresses on it was discussing this topic also. I wouldn't go so far as to say racist but... I dunno, I was disappointed but she didn't do a bad job. I don't want to bash her or anything.

by claweless (Fri May 1 2009 13:22:52)

More importantly, why is she in this film. Her acting is beyond wooden.. it's Keanu Reeves-esque in its woodenness. At least Keanu has the good sense to be in movies where all he needs is to do some action and rely on his pretty looks.

Seriously, she's awful. Seriously.

by missparkers (Fri May 1 2009 13:26:58)

Hey,

How do we know she's not native american? I just saw the movie and saw how she played Kayla. I am not legally native american but I do have 1/16 cherokee blood. Maybe she has some native american blood also.

by WasDreaminWhenIwroteThis (Fri May 1 2009 17:22:55)

That was what I was thinking, missarkers. She totally could pass for 1/4 or even 1/2 Native American. But I do agree that Hollywood likes to white-wash characters when it comes to big budget films. It's not malicious, they are just trying to appease what they think is an intolerant nation. It is insulting and helps to perpetuate the problem.

by ReelFilmster (Sat May 2 2009 10:48:58)

If you can actually FIND a TALENTED native American actress then fine--

Besides skin colour: Is she dramatically effective? Does she have a good resume? Is she able to do the physical scenes? Is she attractive enough to play opposite Hugh Jackman in front of mainstream audiences who demand eye candy?

--but hiring someone just because they're Native is stupid, especially if they are unable to pull off a role for the mainstream audience. I live in Canada, work in the industry, and we have a show called The Reserve that is produced on tax credit, and it is by far the worst show on canadian television...it's not easy casting natives when you have 3 or 4 capable performers scattered across the country...why delay the release of a film trying to miraculously find this person when you can go with an actress that has paid her dues...its been a long time coming for Lynn Collins.

by WasDreaminWhenIwroteThis (Sat May 2 2009 13:53:37)

Reelfilm, you make a great point but it fails terribly here because the character IS actually Native American. We aren't concerned that they didn't cast a NA for the sake of diversity but only because the character is a NA woman. When it comes to screen adaptations of novels, graphic novels and comics, it is extremely important to honor and respect the original work. It's important to the fans who have read these comic books since childhood. If the best actor for the Wolverine character was Black, would it be okay to cast him because he is the most qualified or should the cast the most qualified white actor? What if all the best actors are white? Should they be cast for ever character and just perform with make-up, prosthetics and CGI so that they look like another race? When does it go too far?

by captainchris5369 (Sat May 2 2009 21:18:54)

Only Native Americans can play Native Americans? You're the racist.

by WasDreaminWhenIwroteThis (Sun May 3 2009 11:01:22)

Yay! We have a black president now and the second he gave that oath we all magically went color blind:-) Discrimination based on race and ethnicity no longer exist. So, whenever you think you encounter it, just remember that it's all in your head.

I agree that we should pick our battle WAY more carefully and this is definitely not something to get upset about. But it doesn't hurt to start a dialog about it. Especially in a forum as innocuous as imdb. There wouldn't even be a thread about this if this sort of thing didn't go on in Hollywood since the birth of the film industry. It's just funny to see it still going on in 2009 and there is nothing wrong with making the observation. I think some of the responses are way over the top. Lynn is a beautiful woman and pulled off the character wonderfully so I don't have a problem with her being playing the role. The fact that she isn't NA is just something to note and file away with similar instances.

by e-bowen2 6 days ago (Mon Jun 15 2009 21:20:32)

I think this is a little overreaction. Do any known Native American actresses pop in your head? ARE there even any? Probably, but more than likely it's like trying to find a needle in a haystack.Comment:  Naturally, I agreed with WasDreaminWhenIwroteThis and disagreed with his critics. To see my responses, go to page 4 and page 5 of this thread.

Note:  I fixed some of the spelling and punctuation in these messages to make them more readable.

For more on the subject, see Friday, Tonto, Jacob Black, et al. and The Best Indian Movies.

Republican hypocrisy on looting

Republicans artifacts complaints outrageousOnce again Republicans reveal, through statements by Orrin Hatch and Bob Bennett, their outrageous hypocrisy by complaining about the police arrests of elderly white people, et al. for looting Indian artifacts. Apparently Hatch and Bennett don't have a problem with white people ripping off the cultural heritage of Native Americans. Nothing in their statements deplored the actual ongoing criminal activity, just the fact that the justice system took action.

Republicans have promoted themselves as the party of "law and order" for decades. What they mean is setting the justice system against the impoverished and people of color to maintain order for their overwhelmingly white constituents.Comment:  Couldn't have said it better myself.

Where were these hypocrites when the United States was breaking treaties and the law to oppress and victimize Native people? Oh, right. They were rooting for the Anglo lawbreakers against the innocent Natives. In other words, they were cheering "the justice system against the impoverished and people of color to maintain order for their overwhelmingly white constituents."

I'm reminded of Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States, in which he spends a lot of time criticizing government officials for repressing Indians, other minorities, immigrants, workers, et al. Here's a quote from Zinn:[A]t this peaceful demonstration, I was attacked by police mounted on horseback and on foot. Before I knew it, I was clubbed and knocked unconscious. You might say I woke up with a new consciousness. I woke up realizing that things my radical friends had been saying to me were really true, that the police and the government were not detached bystanders, that freedom of speech did not really exist for dissenters, for radicals, for troublemakers. So it gave me a radical view of the United States, a critical view of the role of the state and of the instruments of the state—the police, the Army, and so on—as not being neutral at all in political battles, but being generally against workers and against striking people, against dissenters of all kinds.When was the first time law enforcement officials took the side of the poor huddled masses against the rich white establishment? The forced enrollment of the Little Rock Nine in 1957? Almost 200 years after the Declaration of Independence declared that all (white, property-owning) men are created equal?

Yet here we go again. Conservative officials are squealing like stuck pigs because the government is enforcing the law. Against their own kind, that is. To them the crime isn't looting Indian artifacts. It's arresting people who loot Indian artifacts.

"We can't be criminals. We're upstanding white people just like the Founding Fathers. Call my lawyer at the country club and tell him to do something. Those good-for-nothing Indians are on the warpath again."

As the letter writer said, none of these sniveling conservatives has addressed the actual crimes. None of them has said, "The methods of arrest were too harsh even though the arrests themselves were valid." No, the looters are trying to play their "Get Out of Jail Free" cards. "We're white so you can't arrest us for harming Indians."

For more on the subject, see Natives Against Artifact Thieves and Looters "Outraged" Over Indictments.

Below:  "When I do it to you, it's the law. When you do it to me, it's an outrage."

Stupidity at the Naval Academy

Native Identity And Community On Campus

by Mark Anthony Rolo“The Naval Academy was not known for its cultural sensitivity in the early ’90s,” he says. “Once, during my plebe (freshman year), upperclassmen ordered me to do a rain dance for the company in order that we might get out of parade. Not only did I have to do a made-up jig for them, as I explained I did not know a rain dance per se, they had my peers join me.”

After three years of racial stereotyping and an evangelical Christian classmate who was determined to convert his “savage dorm mate,” Bird Bear transferred to the University of Washington-Seattle, graduating in 1995 with a degree in physical oceanography.Is it just a coincidence that the Tailhook scandal occurred around the same time? I doubt it.In September 1991, the 35th annual symposium in Las Vegas featured a two-day debrief on Navy and Marine Corps aviation in Operation Desert Storm. It was the largest such meeting yet held, with some 4,000 attendees: active, reserve, and retired personnel.

According to a Department of Defense (DoD) report, 83 women and 7 men stated that they had been victims of sexual assault and harassment during the meeting. Several participants later stated that a number of flag officers attending the meetings were aware of the sexual assaults, but did nothing to stop them.Comment:  For more on the subject, see The Basic Indian Stereotypes.

Absolutely True Diary challenged again

Controversial book to stay on reading list

Some parents seek to ban 'The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian'

By Lisa Black, Tribune staff reporter, and Ruth Fuller, special correspondentAntioch High School has agreed to form a committee that includes parents to review books after an assigned summer reading book drew protests because of its language and description of sexual acts.

But school board President Wayne Sobczak said he doubts the book--"The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian" by Sherman Alexie--will be pulled from shelves as some parents wanted.

"I am sensing the book is going to stay because it is age-appropriate," said Sobczak, who said he had also received positive input from parents who read the book.

"I appreciate the parents who came and had concerns," he added. "But the tone and flavor of the book is positive for children this age, and shows someone trying to do the right thing."Comment:  I'm glad to hear that at least one school official in the US has a spine. Way to stand up against the conservatives who want to control our thoughts and return us to our puritanical past.

For more on the subject, see Absolutely True Diary Still Banned and School Censors Absolutely True Diary.

Phony tribes, headdresses, totem poles

Ploeger:  Kids' classes are true gemsOn June 12, I had the distinct pleasure of observing the Native American Crafts & Lore Class while we were taping it for viewing on Channel 8 TV in July. One could deem it challenging to keep a classroom full of kids in first through six grades actively engaged and occupied for 1½ hours, but those instructors did, and they accomplished it in great style. I found myself fascinated as I observed the activities and listened to the instruction. The class began with kids deciding which imaginary Native American tribe they belonged to--the Crows or the Ravens. Then they made a headdress to correspond with the bird of their tribe. Wearing their completed headdresses, kids went to the "long cabin" (actually a quilt spread out on the floor), where they enjoyed a wide range of instruction about crows, ravens and Indian tribes and their cultures, including totem poles and their meanings. The "visit" concluded with a story, complete with visual aids taken from a "story bag" (an ancient Native American tradition). The spellbound children listened intently to the story, and studied each visual aid as it was taken from the bag and passed around.

Just when I thought the kids couldn't possibly stay on track for another activity, the instructors surprised them with the opportunity to build personal totem poles from toilet paper rolls and photographs of totem poles in Alaska. The kids were proud of their projects, and delighted with their totem poles, as were the parents who whipped out cell phones and cameras to snap pictures of the finished products.Comment:  This Colorado school seems to be teaching Pacific Northwest Indian lore rather than Plains Indian lore. That's almost unheard of, and a welcome change.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be doing it well. Here are some potential problems:

Joining the imaginary Crows or Ravens: as if a tribe is the same as a sports team.

Making phony headdresses: I don't know if these are Plains headdresses or some sort of Pacific Northwest headdresses, but they're likely to be wrong.

What is it with classrooms and Indian headdresses? Can't anyone think of a more original activity?

Making phony totem poles: Even with some instruction about the poles' meaning, I doubt the kids are doing anything authentic.

For more on the subject, see Kids in Headdresses Learn Creek Lore and "Grey Eagle" Teaches Stereotypes.

Below:  A typical lesson about Indians from another school.

Asian actors in Jonah Hex

Morten Krogh of NativeCelebs posted a note from actor Alan Eaglewolf on Facebook. In part it said:Osiyo brother, how is it going? Working with Josh Brolin was incredible. What a very personal and nice guy. He treated all very nice and introduced and shook hands with us all regardless of extras, cast and crew. As for the Native cast, there was very few of us. Most were of Asian descent.

In regards to the authenticity of the Native parts, it way off but seeing it is based off a comic book character, they weren't going for authenticity. It was still a wonderful experience.In response to this, Roscoe Pond wrote:Cool Morten! You got the scoop. Sounds great.And I wrote:Asians?! There's no reason a movie based on a comic book can't have an authentic cast. Sounds like Jonah Hex is asking for criticism.Comment:  For more on the subject, see The Origin of Jonah Hex and Casting in Jonah Hex Movie. For more on non-Natives cast as Natives, see Friday, Tonto, Jacob Black, et al.

Trouble making Hiawatha Diary

I've reported before on the effort to make a movie about the Hiawatha Asylum for Insane Indians. Here's a note showing how difficult it is to make a Native-themed movie:

Hiawatha DiaryAs many of our support system already know, funding for Hiawatha Diary has proven to be a challenge--basically due to unrealistic demands by investors. One investor asked that we "trade out Indians for black people to make the movie more marketable." Another demanded palm trees around the asylum. Yet another requested that the producers "introduce him to a nice Indian woman he could marry" in exchange for the exact amount of funding.

Needless to say, money has been handed back more than once. While this has thrown us off schedule, it has not dampened our resolve.Comment:  Yeah, because movies with a large cast of insane black people have a great track record. Especially if the lunatics frolic in tropical locales with palm trees.

These investors don't sound too bright.

Let's look at a recent example of replacing Indians with blacks. Robinson Crusoe the book: three centuries of publishing success with Friday the Indian. Crusoe the NBC series: canceled after 13 episodes with Friday the black man. Oops!

For more on the subject, see Update on Hiawatha Diary and The Best Indian Movies.

P.S. Thanks to correspondent DMarks for bringing this page to my attention.

"American Indian" vs. "Asian Indian"

In a Racialicious thread on an unrelated subject, someone complained about "the obviously-incorrect term Indian." That is, about calling American Indians "Indians." I posted the following response:

Re "the obviously-incorrect term Indian": The term "Indian" isn't incorrect, much less obviously incorrect. Since the vast majority of American Indians call themselves American Indians, it's correct for them. As in most cases, we should let the people themselves choose what they want to be called, and they've chosen "Indian."

This isn't that complex an issue, friends. "America" referred to South America before it referred to the United States of America, but we're not talking about renaming the country. Georgia was a Eurasian country before it was a US state, but we're not talking about renaming the state. In case you didn't know, words gain new meanings over time.

We still call the two tropical island groups the East and West Indies. Asian Indians live near one group of islands and American Indians live near the other. This doesn't seem especially strange to me. No more strange than, say, naming New Mexico after Mexico even though it's not Mexican and no Mexica Indians live there.

For more on the subject, see "Indian" Comes from "Indies."

Statue of crouching Sacagawea

Loo-loo cry:  Sacajawea gets a plaqueClose to a hundred people gathered at the foot of the Lewis and Clark statue at the intersection of Ridge and McIntire Streets this afternoon in a ceremony dedicating a plaque to Sacajawea, the Shoshone woman who accompanied Meriwether Lewis and William Clark on the first American expedition to the Pacific coast.

Responding to concerns that Sacajawea’s representation in the statue (which involved a “Miss Informed” beauty contest), crouched beneath the two men, inaccurately portrayed her importance to the expedition, the City commissioned the plaque, and invited two of Sacajawea’s descendants to author the text. The city also invited several of Sacajawea’s descendants from Idaho to today’s ceremony.Beauty queens for SacagaweaMiss Representation and Miss Informed promenade the Downtown Mall seeking 500 signatures for a petition to correct the portrayal of Lewis and Clark guide Sacagawea in the statue at Ridge and West Main.

“We object to the sexist and inaccurate representation,” says Miss Informed (Kelly Silliman). “She’d never cower.”

Miss Representation (Jen Hoyt-Tidwell) has spoken before City Council, and the pair want due respect for and a proper accounting of the woman who, despite toting a newborn baby, assisted the L&C expedition to the Pacific.Comment:  For starters, what is this statue doing in Charlottesville, Virginia? It's about as appropriate there as the Massasoit statue is in Salt Lake City. Maybe the two cities could trade. At least then the statues would be within a few hundred miles of their proper locations.

The ceremony was for a plaque added to the statue, not the statue itself. Here's the history of the statue:

Lewis, Clark and Sacagawea StatueThe statue of Meriwether Lewis, William Clark and Sacagawea was sculpted by Charles Keck, who was a prominent sculptor of his day. The statue was commissioned by Paul Goodloe McIntire and given to the citizens of Charlottesville in 1919.

The statue represents not only the first public depiction of the famous Corps of Discovery in Charlottesville, but expresses the popular sentiments of the day towards the general themes of exploration, national purpose and conquest of the wilderness of North America.In 1919, I guess we have to be thankful they included Sacagawea at all. But the statue clearly shows what they were thinking. The bold white men leading the way, the subservient Indian maiden at their feet, etc.

Instead of this, how about showing Sacagawea standing before the men and pointing the way? That is what she did, isn't it? This statue makes her look like a servant, slave, or concubine, not a guide.

At least Natives got to share their perspective via the plaque. I suggested something like that for the Massasoit statue, too. It wouldn't hurt if every statue of an Indian had an explanatory Native plaque added to it.

For more on the subject, see New Sacagawea Dollar Released and Visitor Center Has 5 Native Statues.

Sewage water as holy water

Editorial:  No room for the red man in a black and white world

By Wells Mahkee Jr.Well, it appears as if the Almighty Dollar has won out once again and the religions of many Native Americans have been shoved to the wayside. Last Monday, the U.S. Supreme Court decided not to hear an appeal filed in January by the Navajo Nation and other tribal and environmental groups that ultimately would have protected the San Francisco Peaks from further development by the Arizona Snowbowl Ski Resort.

This comes to light after the state of New Mexico placed Mt. Taylor--another mountain held sacred by at least 30 tribes--on their State Register of Cultural Properties on June 5 to protect it from exploratory drilling and possible uranium mining. Incidentally, both Mt. Taylor and the San Francisco Peaks are used by tribes from both New Mexico and Arizona as a place of worship.

At the center of this controversial issue is the fact that the Ninth Circuit Court's previous ruling states that use of reclaimed sewage water to make artificial snow wouldn't "substantially burden" a tribe's exercise of religion, as defined in the Religious Freedom and Restoration Act (RFRA). The Act also states that if there is a substantial burden on the exercise of religion, then there must be a "compelling public need" that outweighs the religious burden in order for this decision to be reversed. So what is the burden, you may ask?

The claim says that using reclaimed sewage water for snowmaking won't affect any religious ceremonies that tribes wish to conduct on the Peaks and that the sacred mountains would still be accessible to tribes to conduct such ceremonies. Opponents, however, have been saying all along that it's basically like saying the Catholic church (or any church, for that matter) can substitute reclaimed sewage water for holy water and continue to conduct their religious ceremonies without subterfuge. That's pretty much saying that "water is water" and that those ceremonials that require the use of holy water won't be affected.

Visually, the Peaks may not look like a church, but they are revered and sanctified as such by the different tribes.Comment:  The "sewage water as holy water" analogy is a good one. Would Catholics accept a law that forced them to use sewage water for their holy water? I don't think so. Yet we're forcing Natives to accept sewage water rather than natural snow in their sacred peaks.

For more on the subject, see:

Snowbowl battle continues
"Reclaim the Peaks" from Indians
Ski resort vs. Native religion

Hopi-Croatian cultural exchange

Isvaki Gallery owner travels to Croatia

Hopi member shares culture and Hopi prehistory in the Mediterranean

By Rosanda Suetopka ThayerTraveling with renowned Ute-Navajo flutist, R. Carlos Nakai, Hopi tribal member Bob Lomadafkie of Hotevilla Village spent nine days on the east coast of the Adriatic Sea. He mixed with Croats, Serbs, Italians, Hungarians and Czechs, exchanging Hopi culture, exhibiting his award winning jewelry featuring 2009-10 Miss Croatia as his jewelry model and enjoying the balmy sea atmosphere in Zagreb, the capital of Croatia, known for its warm air and friendly people.

Lomadafkie gave presentations on Hopi prehistory emphasizing a contemporary Hopi lifestyle and how it relates to art creativity and innovation to a non-Native audience comprised of mostly Croatian artists and scholars.Below:  "Bob Lomadafkie, jeweler and owner of Isvaki Gallery in downtown Flagstaff, recently traveled to Croatia to share some of his Hopi culture in Zagreb." (Photo by Rosanda Suetopka Thayer/NHO)

Review of Tanka Bar

I've written about Tanka Bars many times before. They're an excellent example of Native entrepreneurs introducing and marketing a product successfully. Now I've finally eaten one, and I'm here to tell you what it's like.

Its texture is chewy, like that of a granola bar or candy bar. Its flavor is mildly meaty and reminds me a bit of beef jerky or bacon. It's a buffalo/cranberry mix but you can barely taste either component.

In short, the Tanka Bar is good, with a texture and flavor that everyone should enjoy. The bar makes a nice little treat.

I still don't think the Tanka Bar is worth $2.75 or whatever. That's something like 40 cents a bite. I'm not sure any food is worth 40 cents a bite--unless maybe it's chocolate. I can't imagine spending more than a dollar for a 3" bar.

Comment:  For more on the subject, see Tanka Bar Is Editor's Choice, Talking About Tanka Bars, and Tanka Bar is Buffalicious.

P.S. I've had these bars for almost a year. They were in sealed packages in the refrigerator, but they may have lost flavor over time.

Cultural retention through baseball

Historian finds baseball in old Am. Ind. schoolsScholarly works had mentioned the boarding schools, but few works mentioned their baseball teams, he said.

Baseball was well on its way to being the clear national pastime at that time, Laliberte said, and it soon became a way to assimilate the Native American children into Euro-American life.

But the children organized and ran the teams themselves and often used their own language when playing. It served as the modern-day equivalent of coaches’ signs because the other team couldn’t understand the language.

It also allowed the Ojibwe children to retain part of their culture at a time when white authority was telling them to renounce it, Laliberte said.Comment:  I bet the boarding-school students found all sorts of ways to retain their cultures. Clandestine meetings, secret codes, etc.

Playing on a baseball team would've been another way. It would've given them some private time on the field where they could be themselves.

For more on the subject, see More Indian Baseball Lore and Invisible History of Indian Baseball.

Peru conflict = colonization

Newcomb:  A deadly clash of worldviews in PeruPope Alexander VI called for the “propagation of the Christian empire,” and for the “subjugation” of “barbarous nations.” As Amy Goodman has reported on “Democracy Now!,” Garcia said 40,000 indigenous people of the Amazon rainforest do not have the right to prevent Peru and multi-national corporations from coming onto and exploiting indigenous lands. To say otherwise, claimed Garcia, would be to take Peru into “irrationality and a backwards primitive state.” These terms are synonymous with the pope’s use of the word “barbarous.”

Pope Alexander VI declared “by the authority of Almighty God,” “we” do “give, grant, assign to you and your heirs and successors, kings of Castile and Leon, forever, together with all their dominions, cities, camps, places, and villages, and all rights, jurisdictions, appurtenances, all islands and mainland found and to be found, discovered and to be discovered.”

There was only one “proviso” or limitation on the generous donation by the Holy See. None of the islands or main lands that the Spanish monarchs were authorized to seize could be “in the actual possession of any Christian king or prince.” It did not matter at all, however, that those lands were already in the possession of the original, non-Christian Indian nations because the Indians were portrayed as less than human. As recounted on “Democracy Now!,” there is an audio record of Peruvian police yelling in a dehumanizing manner, “Shoot the dogs in the head!” thereby referring to the Amazonian Indians as less than human.Good news! Indians win their battle with Peru's colonialist government:

Peru's indigenous win victory over landsPeru's Congress voted overwhelmingly to revoke two decrees that indigenous groups had said would result in the exploitation of their native lands for oil drilling, mining and logging.

The 82-14 vote on Thursday with no abstentions came after five hours of intense debate.Colonialist attitude continues

Alas, one can find stories such as this one several times a month:

Year-old Legal Challenge to Border Wall DiesA legal challenge in the US Supreme Court to the construction of the US-Mexico border wall was declared dead today. The justices declined to hear an appeal by the County of El Paso, Texas, to an earlier decision by a US federal court judge that allowed the Bush administration to proceed with construction of the controversial wall.

The El Paso case grew out of former Department of Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff’s waiver last year of more than 30 federal, state and local laws to speed up construction of border fencing in El Paso County, Texas, among other locations. Arguing that Secretary Chertoff did not have the statutory authority to issue the waivers, El Paso County and several co-plaintiffs filed suit against the federal government last June.For O'odham, border fence poses real problems

Our view:  Congress needs to consider how barrier could disrupt binational cultureBefore there was a Mexico or a United States, the O'odham and their ancestors lived in the area that is now divided by an invisible political boundary.

As O'odham tribal Chairwoman Vivian Juan-Saunders points out, what that means is that when the borderlands became part of two separate countries, Indians who were part of one cultural group ended up in two different nations.

Some 75 miles of the Mexico-Arizona border crosses the O'odham reservation. In modern times, tribal members have moved between the two countries using traditional routes with relative ease. A wall would create major problems for these native inhabitants.

"The fence they are discussing now would undermine all of our discussions and agreements with the Border Patrol and create undue harm to our land," Juan-Saunders said. "We need (cross-border) access to allow our members to seek health care, to participate in ceremonies and to engage in cultural processes."Comment:  So the US ignores its own laws to trample and subdivide indigenous land? That's colonialism in action right here.

For more on Peru, see The Amazon Tiananmen and "Sedition" and "Savages" in Peru. For more on colonialism in general, see Those Evil Europeans.

Raquel Welch visits Soboba

Raquel Welch lauds Native American culture

By Victor MoralesLegendry actress and icon Raquel Welch met with Soboba Band of Luiseño Indians tribal members and spoke of the importance of Native American culture May 2.

The actress traveled to the Ramona Bowl Amphitheater, located about 90 miles east of Los Angeles for the annual Ramona Pageant to honor the play and venue that booked her 50 years before becoming a star.

Welch, 18 at the time, played the title role “Ramona,” a play adapted from a Helen Hunt Jackson novel about the tribulations of a privileged biracial Indian woman in love with an Indian man in California following the Mexican American War.

“Being part of this unique production really encouraged me as a performer,” Welch told a sold out crowd of more than 3,000 spectators, according to Soboba Spokesman Mike Hiles.Comment:  For more on the subject, see Soboba Rescues Ramona and Native Actors in Ramona.

Below:  "A 50-year-old publicity photo where Raquel Welch posed with Soboba Tribe member Rose Salgado (right)."