Showing posts with label Irish showband. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Irish showband. Show all posts
August 25, 2011
July 05, 2011
Irish "Indian Chief Head Dress"
Blogger Stephen Bridenstine recently visited Ireland. His findings seem to confirm that no one in Ireland knows anything about Indians.
Going Native in Ireland Part ICarroll's Irish Gift Stores is a huge chain of souvenir shops strung out along the main tourist thoroughfares in downtown Dublin. They sell everything from Leprechaun key chains to Guinness slippers to "Kiss me, I'm Irish!" T-shirts. If it can be made green, white, and orange, it will be sold at Carroll's.
I thought I had seen it all when my eyes fell upon the most mind-boggling souvenir imaginable! 
Decades of western media stereotypes have taught Americans and Irishmen alike that the headdress wearing Plains Indian is the ultimate Indian. To wear any other Native head covering would simply be second rate! Even when rooting on Irish teams, people want that universally recognized "fierce" look of the Plains warrior with headdress and war paint.
So who exactly would ever buy the headdress and why? My money goes on those young hipster types such as the Glastonbury “Indians.” The types who sport nostalgic clothing in an effort to look hip/ironic but instead look like they're stuck in some multi-dimensional multi-cultural time warp.
Just check out the grinning fools on the packaging! 
Comment: The online version is sold under "Novelty Costumes" and called an Indian Chief Hat. Because the Irish believe Indians are colorful entertainment figures, like clowns. Because they believe Indians are too savage to practice religion, so their sacred regalia is a "hat."
Defenders of the "Indians" showband will say this is more "harmless fun." If so, I say it's racist "harmless fun." I don't see them dressing up as stereotypical blacks in blackface and Afro wigs. Or as stereotypical Latinos, Asians, or Muslims. They're discriminating by race--hence, racist.
This isn't something unique to Ireland, of course. People in the US wear the same stupid headdresses for the same ignorant reasons. Whether they realize it or not, whether they intend it or not, both groups of people are racists.
For more on the subject, see "Irish" Showband Emulates "Indians" Showband and Showband Critics = "PC Cockroaches"?
Going Native in Ireland Part I
I thought I had seen it all when my eyes fell upon the most mind-boggling souvenir imaginable!
So who exactly would ever buy the headdress and why? My money goes on those young hipster types such as the Glastonbury “Indians.” The types who sport nostalgic clothing in an effort to look hip/ironic but instead look like they're stuck in some multi-dimensional multi-cultural time warp.
Just check out the grinning fools on the packaging!
Comment: The online version is sold under "Novelty Costumes" and called an Indian Chief Hat. Because the Irish believe Indians are colorful entertainment figures, like clowns. Because they believe Indians are too savage to practice religion, so their sacred regalia is a "hat."
Defenders of the "Indians" showband will say this is more "harmless fun." If so, I say it's racist "harmless fun." I don't see them dressing up as stereotypical blacks in blackface and Afro wigs. Or as stereotypical Latinos, Asians, or Muslims. They're discriminating by race--hence, racist.
This isn't something unique to Ireland, of course. People in the US wear the same stupid headdresses for the same ignorant reasons. Whether they realize it or not, whether they intend it or not, both groups of people are racists.
For more on the subject, see "Irish" Showband Emulates "Indians" Showband and Showband Critics = "PC Cockroaches"?
July 04, 2011
"Irish" showband emulates "Indians" showband
In honor of the "Indians" showband, here's what the Irish equivalent would look like:
Go Irish!
For more on the subject, see Showband Critics = "PC Cockroaches"?! and Corrigan Brothers Defend "Indians" Showband.
Go Irish!
For more on the subject, see Showband Critics = "PC Cockroaches"?! and Corrigan Brothers Defend "Indians" Showband.
July 03, 2011
Showband critics = "PC cockroaches"?!
In the same posting where the Corrigan Brothers supported the "Indians" showband, a debate broke out in the comments section. The instigator's name was Mojo Celtica and I gather she (?) is an American of Irish/Cherokee descent. Here's how it went:American insanity? It's not us. What's insane is that we tolerate these little roving bands of vocal PC cockroaches at all. The majority of Americans aren't like this. Those claiming offense aren't even American Indians (who would howl because I didn't say "Native Americans"). These PC-types are professional whiners. Ignore them. We do. Someone named Deejay NDN responded to Mojo:So now people think Native Americans as inanimate objects? We're living breathing PEOPLE who don't like being made fun of! That's it! STOP MAKING FUN OF US! Mojo responded to Deejay NDN:Okay Deejay, I can see you're angry an upset so I will address you seriously.
No one believes Native Americans are inanimate objects. Everyone knows they are living breathing persons and have feelings. You perceive this band as "making fun" and find it hurtful. I understand. I have a completely different perception. I believe imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, even if they're being silly. We Irish are a merry bunch. Being an "aboriginal" from the Americas is cool. They would not have chosen people to emulate if they despised them.
I am acutely aware of the history of Native American genocide and don't have to Google. Destroying this little Irish band will not heal the wounds of the American past. Many different peoples around the world have suffered genocide and have moved past it–not forgotten it, but moved past it… so they are not crippled in the present by the atrocities of the past.
I could slap the green beer out of the hand of every Englishman on St. Pat's, but it's history–not to be forgotten, but not to be relived each and every day of the present.
There are many worthwhile projects designed to directly help aboriginal peoples that would actually make a difference, yet you devote your time and attention to this little Irish band halfway around the world that most people have never heard of. I think you are angry and hurt, but if this band were disbanded tomorrow, you would still be just as angry and hurt. I can only wish you inner peace, Deejay. Rob weighs in
My response to Mojo Celtica:
You're incredibly ignorant if you think large numbers of Native Americans are protesting the band because they want to be called "Native Americans" rather than "Indians." Rather, they're protesting the band because it perpetuates racist stereotypes linked to weakened tribal sovereignty, losing court cases, reduced funding for services, etc. In other words, actual problems that affect Native health and welfare.
You can read more of the criticism here:
Showband criticism reaches Irish press
"Blacks" showband vs. "Indians" showband
Natives attack "Indians" showband
"I am acutely aware of the history of Native American genocide and don't have to Google."
That's nice. Meanwhile, your colleagues the Corrigan Brothers continue perpetuating the racist stereotypes of the "Indians" band. And thousands of Irish fans cheer these racist stereotypes.
"What's insane is that we tolerate these little roving bands of vocal PC cockroaches at all."
Yeah, we can see how sensitive and thoughtful you are. "Vocal PC cockroaches" = hundreds if not thousands of Natives on Facebook. Basically, every Native who saw the postings about the "Indians" band.
"The majority of Americans aren't like this."
The majority of Americans are ignorant of the racism and stereotyping they perpetuate against Natives. Just as you and the "Indians" band are.
"Those claiming offense aren't even American Indians (who would howl because I didn't say ‘Native Americans')."
So you did background checks on all the people protesting the "Indians"? Or you just fabricated these claims because they sounded good? The latter, I think.
In any case, you're wrong on both counts. Try Googling these points since you so badly misstated the facts. Educate yourself so we don't have to do it for you.
More from Mojo
Mojo mostly ignored my comments and continued:Perhaps my failure to understand is that my identity and sense of self is not based on any one ethnicity. I have a grandfather who was German, one that was Cherokee, my grandmothers both Scot and Irish, and I consider myself to be an American. I have their blood, but not their history. I didn't walk the Trail of Tears. I wasn't driven from Ireland to the US by starvation. My native tongue wasn't forbidden to be used by the British. You get the drift. I cannot fight a battle that's already over. I choose to live in the present, not the past. If you want understanding, then you must be willing to understand.
If I got cheesed off every time someone made fun of my sons wearing "dresses" (kilts), or hear about drunkards being thrown in the "Paddy Wagon," seeing leprechauns drawn with monkey faces (less than human), etc., etc., I would just be mad and unhappy all the damn time. No one offends me unless I choose to be offended. Generally, I choose not to.
Most of the arguments made here don't get past an eye roll. I have listened; however, to Deejay, who can articulate what and how he feels without being hateful and combative. The fact that he is living oppression in The Now helps me relate, feel compassion and want to help on a human level.
I still don't believe the dissolution of a show band is the answer. For however distasteful… ‘If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.' ~ Noam Chomsky Deejay NDN responded:The Indians aren’t imitating us. That’s the point. They’re making fun of us. What they’re doing is a misinformed stereotype of what Non Aboriginal people think we should look like. This is what’s so damaging. This is what’s racist. Mojo continued:@ Deejay: My issue with the show band is one of freedom of speech and expression. Not because I am a fan or am Irish.
I also have; however, an issue with oppression, and I am also concerned that people in your area "struggle for basic human necessities like drinkable water" and that "the suicide rate of aboriginals under the age 24 is 78.4 per 100 000".
Imagine if the publicity generated by this show band controversy instead highlighted these problems? What if all the energy expended in debating costumes were instead combined and directed at solving these issues and actually helping real people?
As Rob, The Diplomat, observed above, there are "hundreds if not thousands of Natives on Facebook." Why not harness the power of those people and enlist others to engage issues you can actually do something about? Beating this stereotyping thing to death could last forever. Tell us where to go, what to do, and how we can help right now. Rob replies to Mojo
All the "honoring" and "flattering" arguments are pretty darn silly. Does anyone seriously think the "Indians" showband could perform at a genuine powwow without getting booed? Let's book them for the next tribal summit in Washington DC and see how tribal leaders respond. Who wants to bet on the outcome?
What matters in these situations isn't the "intent" of the offenders. It's the reactions of the offended. Your "belief" that you're flattering Indians is irrelevant, Mojo, since Indians have told you otherwise.
The magical power of intent
The problem with white/Indian comparisons is that Germans, Scots, and Irish aren't oppressed in the United States anymore. Native Americans are.
As I'm sure you know, discrimination against Irish Americans was widespread in the 19th century:
Irish American--discrimination
I've never heard of these Irish (or blacks, or Latinos, or Asians) laughing at the palpable prejudice against them. I bet they protested just as Indians are doing now. They stopped protesting only when the prejudice went away.
Almost everyone participating in this action is also involved in other causes. It's called multitasking. It doesn't take much effort to criticize a showband between projects.
These activists understand the link between prejudicial images, beliefs, and acts. When people think Indians are primitive savages, they're less likely to take Native issues seriously. If stereotypes don't influence them, why are they so ignorant about Native life today?
You say you know about the genocide, but do you know about the water and suicide problems? Do your fellow Irish know about them? Do they know anything other than their stereotypical beliefs about Indians? Because it sure isn't obvious from the writings of Stephen Maguire or the Corrigan Brothers.
This protest is raising the profile of Indians in Ireland. Who knows how many people it will inspire to read, visit, or contribute after discovering Indians aren't an extinct race of savages? You seem to be learning something; so is everyone else.
You want things to do? Spend five minutes a day reading Pechanga.net, Indianz.com, or Indian Country Today. "Like" their pages on Facebook and follow them on Twitter. Learn what Indians think and want and they won't demand more of you.
Finally, I'm not sure anyone who uses the term "vocal PC cockroaches" should take a superior attitude. Clean up your nasty rhetoric before you worry about anyone else, okay?
More thoughts on "PC"
No one is saying the "Indians" band should disband, Mojo. We're saying they should stop using the stereotypical Indian names and images. They can perform under any identity they wish other than "Indians."
Sure, they have a right to "express" themselves. So does every racist who uses an offensive slur. But people also have a responsibility to other members of society. If you're going to indulge in stereotypes, you'd better have a good reason for doing it. Exploiting people for profit isn't enough of a reason for racist behavior.
Funny that you accused critics of trying to silence the "Indians." That's exactly what you did by labeling the critics "PC cockroaches," of course. That's what "political correctness" means these days: "I don't like your charges of racism so I'm going to call you the problem. I hope that'll shut you up so I can continue to enjoy racist images and acts."
"Political correctness" = silencing criticism
With your support for Aaron Paquette's reply, I guess you've backed off your foolish claim that the critics are non-Indians who care only about political correctness. Oh, well...better late than never. Maybe you'll think twice before you speak next time.
For more on the subject, see Irish Band Is Just Harmless Fun? and Most Racist Musical Group Ever?
Below: Mojo's impression of Natives who dare to oppose racism and stereotyping.
No one believes Native Americans are inanimate objects. Everyone knows they are living breathing persons and have feelings. You perceive this band as "making fun" and find it hurtful. I understand. I have a completely different perception. I believe imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, even if they're being silly. We Irish are a merry bunch. Being an "aboriginal" from the Americas is cool. They would not have chosen people to emulate if they despised them.
I am acutely aware of the history of Native American genocide and don't have to Google. Destroying this little Irish band will not heal the wounds of the American past. Many different peoples around the world have suffered genocide and have moved past it–not forgotten it, but moved past it… so they are not crippled in the present by the atrocities of the past.
I could slap the green beer out of the hand of every Englishman on St. Pat's, but it's history–not to be forgotten, but not to be relived each and every day of the present.
There are many worthwhile projects designed to directly help aboriginal peoples that would actually make a difference, yet you devote your time and attention to this little Irish band halfway around the world that most people have never heard of. I think you are angry and hurt, but if this band were disbanded tomorrow, you would still be just as angry and hurt. I can only wish you inner peace, Deejay.
My response to Mojo Celtica:
You're incredibly ignorant if you think large numbers of Native Americans are protesting the band because they want to be called "Native Americans" rather than "Indians." Rather, they're protesting the band because it perpetuates racist stereotypes linked to weakened tribal sovereignty, losing court cases, reduced funding for services, etc. In other words, actual problems that affect Native health and welfare.
You can read more of the criticism here:
Showband criticism reaches Irish press
"Blacks" showband vs. "Indians" showband
Natives attack "Indians" showband
"I am acutely aware of the history of Native American genocide and don't have to Google."
That's nice. Meanwhile, your colleagues the Corrigan Brothers continue perpetuating the racist stereotypes of the "Indians" band. And thousands of Irish fans cheer these racist stereotypes.
"What's insane is that we tolerate these little roving bands of vocal PC cockroaches at all."
Yeah, we can see how sensitive and thoughtful you are. "Vocal PC cockroaches" = hundreds if not thousands of Natives on Facebook. Basically, every Native who saw the postings about the "Indians" band.
"The majority of Americans aren't like this."
The majority of Americans are ignorant of the racism and stereotyping they perpetuate against Natives. Just as you and the "Indians" band are.
"Those claiming offense aren't even American Indians (who would howl because I didn't say ‘Native Americans')."
So you did background checks on all the people protesting the "Indians"? Or you just fabricated these claims because they sounded good? The latter, I think.
In any case, you're wrong on both counts. Try Googling these points since you so badly misstated the facts. Educate yourself so we don't have to do it for you.
More from Mojo
Mojo mostly ignored my comments and continued:
If I got cheesed off every time someone made fun of my sons wearing "dresses" (kilts), or hear about drunkards being thrown in the "Paddy Wagon," seeing leprechauns drawn with monkey faces (less than human), etc., etc., I would just be mad and unhappy all the damn time. No one offends me unless I choose to be offended. Generally, I choose not to.
Most of the arguments made here don't get past an eye roll. I have listened; however, to Deejay, who can articulate what and how he feels without being hateful and combative. The fact that he is living oppression in The Now helps me relate, feel compassion and want to help on a human level.
I still don't believe the dissolution of a show band is the answer. For however distasteful… ‘If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.' ~ Noam Chomsky
I also have; however, an issue with oppression, and I am also concerned that people in your area "struggle for basic human necessities like drinkable water" and that "the suicide rate of aboriginals under the age 24 is 78.4 per 100 000".
Imagine if the publicity generated by this show band controversy instead highlighted these problems? What if all the energy expended in debating costumes were instead combined and directed at solving these issues and actually helping real people?
As Rob, The Diplomat, observed above, there are "hundreds if not thousands of Natives on Facebook." Why not harness the power of those people and enlist others to engage issues you can actually do something about? Beating this stereotyping thing to death could last forever. Tell us where to go, what to do, and how we can help right now.
All the "honoring" and "flattering" arguments are pretty darn silly. Does anyone seriously think the "Indians" showband could perform at a genuine powwow without getting booed? Let's book them for the next tribal summit in Washington DC and see how tribal leaders respond. Who wants to bet on the outcome?
What matters in these situations isn't the "intent" of the offenders. It's the reactions of the offended. Your "belief" that you're flattering Indians is irrelevant, Mojo, since Indians have told you otherwise.
The magical power of intent
The problem with white/Indian comparisons is that Germans, Scots, and Irish aren't oppressed in the United States anymore. Native Americans are.
As I'm sure you know, discrimination against Irish Americans was widespread in the 19th century:
Irish American--discrimination
I've never heard of these Irish (or blacks, or Latinos, or Asians) laughing at the palpable prejudice against them. I bet they protested just as Indians are doing now. They stopped protesting only when the prejudice went away.
Almost everyone participating in this action is also involved in other causes. It's called multitasking. It doesn't take much effort to criticize a showband between projects.
These activists understand the link between prejudicial images, beliefs, and acts. When people think Indians are primitive savages, they're less likely to take Native issues seriously. If stereotypes don't influence them, why are they so ignorant about Native life today?
You say you know about the genocide, but do you know about the water and suicide problems? Do your fellow Irish know about them? Do they know anything other than their stereotypical beliefs about Indians? Because it sure isn't obvious from the writings of Stephen Maguire or the Corrigan Brothers.
This protest is raising the profile of Indians in Ireland. Who knows how many people it will inspire to read, visit, or contribute after discovering Indians aren't an extinct race of savages? You seem to be learning something; so is everyone else.
You want things to do? Spend five minutes a day reading Pechanga.net, Indianz.com, or Indian Country Today. "Like" their pages on Facebook and follow them on Twitter. Learn what Indians think and want and they won't demand more of you.
Finally, I'm not sure anyone who uses the term "vocal PC cockroaches" should take a superior attitude. Clean up your nasty rhetoric before you worry about anyone else, okay?
More thoughts on "PC"
No one is saying the "Indians" band should disband, Mojo. We're saying they should stop using the stereotypical Indian names and images. They can perform under any identity they wish other than "Indians."
Sure, they have a right to "express" themselves. So does every racist who uses an offensive slur. But people also have a responsibility to other members of society. If you're going to indulge in stereotypes, you'd better have a good reason for doing it. Exploiting people for profit isn't enough of a reason for racist behavior.
Funny that you accused critics of trying to silence the "Indians." That's exactly what you did by labeling the critics "PC cockroaches," of course. That's what "political correctness" means these days: "I don't like your charges of racism so I'm going to call you the problem. I hope that'll shut you up so I can continue to enjoy racist images and acts."
"Political correctness" = silencing criticism
With your support for Aaron Paquette's reply, I guess you've backed off your foolish claim that the critics are non-Indians who care only about political correctness. Oh, well...better late than never. Maybe you'll think twice before you speak next time.
For more on the subject, see Irish Band Is Just Harmless Fun? and Most Racist Musical Group Ever?
Below: Mojo's impression of Natives who dare to oppose racism and stereotyping.
July 02, 2011
Corrigan Brothers defend "Indians" showband
"When Irish Eyes Are Crying"...they whine over the criticism they get. Now the Irish crybabies are upset because real Indians are slamming the phony "Indians" showband. Too bad, racists.
Irish websites have reposted Stephen Maguire's pro-"Indians," anti-Indians editorial at least twice. In one of these postings, a group named the Corrigan Brothers added a message of support:
Corrigan Brothers Message of Support for The IndiansCorrigan Brothers the Irish Band who were recently mentioned in President Obama’s Irish speech in College Green Dublin as he referred to their seven million you tube international hit “There’s no one as Irish as Barack Obama” have re-acted strongly to a campaign to force one of Ireland’s most established showbands to change their name. Campaigners in the USA have recently been contacting Irish Promoters and venues asking them not to book or promote the Indians as it is offensive to native Americans. Ger Corrigan of the Corrigan Brothers said “this is mad stuff, in fact if the campaigners did their research they would realise that the American Indians actually wish to be referred to as Indians”. The brothers have composed a song called “Let’s back the Irish Indians” to show their support. Ger Corrigan continued “this is like the European Central Bank being offended by the rapper fifty cent or the vegetable growers association being outraged by “the smashing pumpkins”. Corrigan Brothers have sent a message of support to the Indians. To prove how harmless the "Indians" are, the Corrigan Brothers composed their own "Indians"-style song:They swung their tomahawk
From bohola to Dundalk
They set up their tee pee
In trabolgan and Tralee
They sung of Navahoe
In a ballroom in Dungloe
and did the Cherokee
in a dancehall in Ardee
so let’s stop this mad campaign
let the lads keep their name
let’s all take a stand
and back the Irish Indians
over in the Galtymore
played Apache in Tramore
they set up their wig wam
in the town of Cheltenham
down byroads and boreens
to the ballroom in Toureen
the entertained the squaws
from Nobber to Lixnaw
so let’s stop this mad campaign
let the lads keep their name
let’s all take a stand
and back the Irish Indians
so let’s stop this mad campaign
let the lads keep their name
let’s all take a stand
and back the Irish Indians Comment: Wow. Good to see the "Indians'" use of stereotypes hasn't swayed anyone else in Ireland. The Corrigan Brothers show an impressive understanding of Native life today...not.
Or as I wrote in the comments section:
"Congratulations" to the Corrigan Brothers for penning a ditty as full of racist stereotypes as the Irish showband's songs.
For more on the subject, see "Blacks" Showband vs. "Indians" Showband and "Indians" Showband Gets Attention.
Irish websites have reposted Stephen Maguire's pro-"Indians," anti-Indians editorial at least twice. In one of these postings, a group named the Corrigan Brothers added a message of support:
Corrigan Brothers Message of Support for The Indians
From bohola to Dundalk
They set up their tee pee
In trabolgan and Tralee
They sung of Navahoe
In a ballroom in Dungloe
and did the Cherokee
in a dancehall in Ardee
so let’s stop this mad campaign
let the lads keep their name
let’s all take a stand
and back the Irish Indians
over in the Galtymore
played Apache in Tramore
they set up their wig wam
in the town of Cheltenham
down byroads and boreens
to the ballroom in Toureen
the entertained the squaws
from Nobber to Lixnaw
so let’s stop this mad campaign
let the lads keep their name
let’s all take a stand
and back the Irish Indians
so let’s stop this mad campaign
let the lads keep their name
let’s all take a stand
and back the Irish Indians
Or as I wrote in the comments section:
"Congratulations" to the Corrigan Brothers for penning a ditty as full of racist stereotypes as the Irish showband's songs.
For more on the subject, see "Blacks" Showband vs. "Indians" Showband and "Indians" Showband Gets Attention.
July 01, 2011
Showband criticism reaches Irish press
Indians told to disband by PC posse
By Stephen MaguireA BAND called The Indians who dress up as Native Americans are under pressure to disband.
A US campaign group claims the band, formerly called The Casino Showband, are insulting to the country's indigenous people. The politically correct campaigners have gone as far as to contact a number of concert promoters in Ireland calling on them to boycott the band. They have bombarded various hotels and concert venues with emails as part of the campaign.
The Indians have been playing concerts across Ireland for 40 years, have their own stage names and wear costumes.
Band leader and keyboard player Eamon Keane, who is known as Sitting Bull, said he is outraged that the group are trying to claim his band are dishonouring the native American people.
"All we ever get are positive comments about our show. This is PC gone mad. I don't want to give this added publicity but it's madness.
"I have received a lot of emails from these people. I would be happy to meet them and explain to them that we are not trying to offend them." Comment: Awesome! Five days after this controversy erupted, it's in the media! Power to the peeps!
Some reactions from me and my Facebook friends:
"PC posse" = critics of racism, of course.
The "Indians" get "positive comments" only because they play before equally clueless audiences in Europe. The first time Natives heard about this band, the responses were overwhelming negative.
"I have received a lot of emails from these people. I would be happy to meet them and explain to them that we are not trying to offend them." Yeah, why don't you meet with a few members of AIM? And see how badly they kick your butt with that stupid argument?
The Fighting Irish have become the Whining, Crying Irish. They're feeling the pressure, so keep it up!Didn't like the tone of the article though. "PC posse" ... As though this was about being politically correct. Seems they have much to learn. Eamon Keane "is outraged that the group are trying to claim his band are dishonouring the native American people." Keane is "outraged"? Yes, the tone is bad, but getting mentioned at all is a good first step.
The "only a band" excuseMaybe someone should suggest they explain racism to the people in South Central...in blackface. Right. I'd say these "Indians" are totally clueless, but they're no worse than most Americans. "Hey, let's try the same argument they used in 1850 to justify minstrel shows. Maybe it'll work better now than it did then."
Funny that the Irish crybabies have responded to criticism by saying the "Indians" are only a band. Whaddya think...that stereotypes have to be attached to nuclear missiles before they're harmful?
It's only a band, a song, a mascot, a TV show, a movie, etc. I'd love to hear these idiots specify under what circumstances they'd oppose Native stereotypes. Never, obviously.
So stereotypes are "harmless"? So is burning a cross in someone's yard (if you make sure it doesn't singe the grass). And hanging a noose on someone's door. None of these cause any physical harm, so what's the problem?
"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names, images, crosses, and nooses will never hurt me."
For more on Irish showband, see "Blacks" Showband vs. "Indians" Showband and Natives Attack "Indians" Showband.
Below: Another harmless exercise of free speech not intended to offend anyone.
By Stephen Maguire
A US campaign group claims the band, formerly called The Casino Showband, are insulting to the country's indigenous people. The politically correct campaigners have gone as far as to contact a number of concert promoters in Ireland calling on them to boycott the band. They have bombarded various hotels and concert venues with emails as part of the campaign.
The Indians have been playing concerts across Ireland for 40 years, have their own stage names and wear costumes.
Band leader and keyboard player Eamon Keane, who is known as Sitting Bull, said he is outraged that the group are trying to claim his band are dishonouring the native American people.
"All we ever get are positive comments about our show. This is PC gone mad. I don't want to give this added publicity but it's madness.
"I have received a lot of emails from these people. I would be happy to meet them and explain to them that we are not trying to offend them."
Some reactions from me and my Facebook friends:
"PC posse" = critics of racism, of course.
The "Indians" get "positive comments" only because they play before equally clueless audiences in Europe. The first time Natives heard about this band, the responses were overwhelming negative.
"I have received a lot of emails from these people. I would be happy to meet them and explain to them that we are not trying to offend them." Yeah, why don't you meet with a few members of AIM? And see how badly they kick your butt with that stupid argument?
The Fighting Irish have become the Whining, Crying Irish. They're feeling the pressure, so keep it up!
The "only a band" excuse
Funny that the Irish crybabies have responded to criticism by saying the "Indians" are only a band. Whaddya think...that stereotypes have to be attached to nuclear missiles before they're harmful?
It's only a band, a song, a mascot, a TV show, a movie, etc. I'd love to hear these idiots specify under what circumstances they'd oppose Native stereotypes. Never, obviously.
So stereotypes are "harmless"? So is burning a cross in someone's yard (if you make sure it doesn't singe the grass). And hanging a noose on someone's door. None of these cause any physical harm, so what's the problem?
"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names, images, crosses, and nooses will never hurt me."
For more on Irish showband, see "Blacks" Showband vs. "Indians" Showband and Natives Attack "Indians" Showband.
Below: Another harmless exercise of free speech not intended to offend anyone.
June 29, 2011
"Blacks" showband vs. "Indians" showband
While criticizing "The Indians," some people envisioned a stereotypical Irish band to send a message to the wannabes. I went with a black version to make the ridicule more obvious and universal:
I'm gonna start a band called the Blacks with "Frederick Douglass," "Martin Luther King," and "Maya Angelou." With "Barry Obama" on drums and "Oprah" as lead singer. Good idea?
In our costumes and makeup, we'll look roughly like this Australian group of Jackson 5 imitators:
In honor of the "Indians" and their Wigwam Wiggle, we'll play our first single, The Funky Monkey Chicken Lickin' Zulu Hula Dance. It's sure to be a worldwide hit.
Followed by our second single, Don't Be Jivin', Melon Spellin' (Fo' Shizzle Ebonics Rap).
Since our goal is to have fun and not to offend anyone, I'm sure this will be okay.
Ronnie asked:Um...what will your role be in this band? Manager? <g> The band members' names are just code names, you know. I may be most like Douglass, so I'll put on black shoe polish and a gray wig and be him.
Kathryn added:Make sure everyone knows you'll be performing in blackface, and telling anyone of African heritage to STFU because you are "honoring" them. Make sure you say racist things when when you tell them how much they should be honored. Then you'll approach what's happening with the fans of the Irish "Indians" show band. "Barry" takes the stage
Here's "Barry Obama" in costume for his next gig:
Oh, wait...that's not a band costume. It's an example of Tea Party racism widely denounced across the United States. And yet...it's the same thing as the "harmless" Irish showband. Both involve people dressed as stereotypical savages.
Why is one "harmless fun" while the other is deeply offensive to most thinking people? Good question. Ask the racists in the Irish showband, not me.
For more on the subject, see Natives Attack "Indians" Showband and "Indians" Showband Gets Attention.
I'm gonna start a band called the Blacks with "Frederick Douglass," "Martin Luther King," and "Maya Angelou." With "Barry Obama" on drums and "Oprah" as lead singer. Good idea?
In our costumes and makeup, we'll look roughly like this Australian group of Jackson 5 imitators:
In honor of the "Indians" and their Wigwam Wiggle, we'll play our first single, The Funky Monkey Chicken Lickin' Zulu Hula Dance. It's sure to be a worldwide hit.
Followed by our second single, Don't Be Jivin', Melon Spellin' (Fo' Shizzle Ebonics Rap).
Since our goal is to have fun and not to offend anyone, I'm sure this will be okay.
Ronnie asked:
Kathryn added:
Here's "Barry Obama" in costume for his next gig:
Oh, wait...that's not a band costume. It's an example of Tea Party racism widely denounced across the United States. And yet...it's the same thing as the "harmless" Irish showband. Both involve people dressed as stereotypical savages.
Why is one "harmless fun" while the other is deeply offensive to most thinking people? Good question. Ask the racists in the Irish showband, not me.
For more on the subject, see Natives Attack "Indians" Showband and "Indians" Showband Gets Attention.
June 28, 2011
Natives attack "Indians" showband
Here are some of the comments posted on the "Indians" Facebook page after Natives learned about it:Fáilte, I am an Irish-American who honors my ancestors, but also lives among the American Indians here in the US. I think perhaps because Indians are not real people to you, because you do not share your lives with them, that you are not understanding the hurt and outrage you are provoking. Real Indians have been oppressed, and are still oppressed by pale people like us. We have no right to dress up in outfits that mimic their sacred regalia, or to take the names of their ancestors. I have dear friends who are family members of the ancestors whose names you have taken. They don't think it's funny, or entertaining, and neither do I. Please get some new kit and change your name. Find a new gimmick. If your music is good enough, you won't need a gimmick at all. Slán.
How is this any better than blackface? Shame on you.
Your music can surely stand on its own without this kind of racist nonsense, right?
I do not think you intentionally mean to offend the Indigenous people of N. America who were mistakenly thought to be Indians when an Italian man was lost. Please do not commit cultural theft by mimicking our regalia. Please watch this video and consider ways you can entertain without reinforcing racial stereotypes. We are working hard to heal our historical trauma and unresolved grief.
Wow. Most racist band ever. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.
That's not funny. You guys are from Ireland right? I don't think you'd like it if there was an band of Native Americans who called themselves "The Micks," dressed up in leprechaun suits, then pretended to drink & fight as part of their act.
You're about as funny as you are creative. May the wind knock you on your asses, may the road rise up and slap the shit out of you, and the hurricanes of destiny shred your silly costumes to bits.
Custer died for your sins.
Is this a joke?? This is a racial portrayal of Indigenous people. Do you not understand?
Hey--You don't see us playing white people do ya. It's not a joke, its our culture that is very sacred to us. It's very offensive to my race, my culture, my ancestors, No--we don't understand...play someone else A**hole!
What the fuck is this? You guys are white and exploiting Native Americans names with cheezy ass costumes? And why am I not THAT surprised?
You guys are so terrible at being Irish you had to mock another culture to justify your own sad, culturally depleted, sorry asses, didn't ya?
This is far from humorous. It is a clear act of disregard for the honorable names you have chose to attach to your idiotic, insensitive, spirits. All of you have displayed your ignorance and racist views. You have no honor. You are just a bunch of sorry imbeciles who should be slapped with a stupid stick. Now that you have been brought to attention, you will suffer the consequences of you bigoted routine and be held accountable wherever you show up at. Get ready, we are coming!
You bring dishonor and shame upon your own people with this ridicule. Our ways, our songs, our feathers, our tribes, our chiefs are sacred! I must wonder what kind of folks you entertain with this tasteless misrepresentation!
Native American here. I linked you to a note I wrote about the difficulties growing up Native American with people making racist mockeries of my culture. Please know, it's not flattering or harmless. What you're doing is harmful, ignorant, and if you continue after hearing heartfelt pleas and angry urging, malicious. Please choose a different name and theme for your band.
I'm sure you were raised to have respect for your culture and ways and I'm sure kids are being raised as such also, well it's very difficult as parents to raise our kids with strong self-esteem and confidence when people like you openly disrespect and further oppress a culture by mocking who they are. THINK ABOUT IF THE TABLES WERE TURNED!!!
This is so upsetting. I'm so used to my Irish friends being respectful of my culture. It has been my experience that many Irish people are in solidarity with us indigenous peoples. This is just disrespectful....It brings great dishonour to the relationship between our nations.
Dumbest...shit...ever...you racist fucks...
What an awful way to get attention towards your band!! I hope after reading the many comments of the people your band has offended you will be enlightened!...to change not only your name and the way you are dressing; but also to change your outlook on this proud race and their traditions. Your ignorance towards the Native people and their culture is sickening. And if this is intentional ridicule, and not ignorance, shame on you all! What goes around comes back around, karma will see you fit.
Totally not cool ...nor entertaining...what your so called attempt at dressing in "regalia" and naming band members as such is clearly a demonstration that represents total ignorance based on prejudice and discrimination!!!!
Report all of the pictures, and the page as racist content.
I am totally disgusted. I lived a life of racism. Hasn't time changed!!! This answers my question. There are always some ignorant people out there. What you do will come back on you.....believe me!!
I'm also thinking of starting a new band, I can't find a name for it maybe the honkeys, the niggers, spics or jews? I don't know let me know.
RACIST VERY RACIST I'm 100 percent Ojibwe and I'm outraged at this.
Should be called I stole everything from the Indians even the name the Indians!
I hate that I had to like this page in order to leave a comment. Do y'all think you are honoring American Indians? Do y'all think calling your band The Indians, giving yourselves the names of respected warriors, dressing in fake regalia is showing respect? You're wrong. What y'all are doing is insulting, disrespectful, and borders on identity theft. Think about what you've done. Rename your band. Now, as soon as I hit share, I will dislike this page.
I do not believe this is racist as much as it's ignorant. Yes, your stupidity is inadvertently a form of racism but what really shows is your ignorance. Why didn't you call yourselves "The Klansmen"? Is it because that would be considered in bad taste? Comment: It's ignorant and it's racist. Most if not all racism is born of ignorance.
If you think something has to be hateful or malicious to be racist, wrong. Regardless of the intent, if it singles out one race for special treatment, it's racist.
For more on the subject, see "Indians" Showband Gets Attention and Most Racist Musical Group Ever?
P.S. I fixed minor errors in punctuation and capitalization.
How is this any better than blackface? Shame on you.
Your music can surely stand on its own without this kind of racist nonsense, right?
I do not think you intentionally mean to offend the Indigenous people of N. America who were mistakenly thought to be Indians when an Italian man was lost. Please do not commit cultural theft by mimicking our regalia. Please watch this video and consider ways you can entertain without reinforcing racial stereotypes. We are working hard to heal our historical trauma and unresolved grief.
Wow. Most racist band ever. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.
That's not funny. You guys are from Ireland right? I don't think you'd like it if there was an band of Native Americans who called themselves "The Micks," dressed up in leprechaun suits, then pretended to drink & fight as part of their act.
You're about as funny as you are creative. May the wind knock you on your asses, may the road rise up and slap the shit out of you, and the hurricanes of destiny shred your silly costumes to bits.
Custer died for your sins.
Is this a joke?? This is a racial portrayal of Indigenous people. Do you not understand?
Hey--You don't see us playing white people do ya. It's not a joke, its our culture that is very sacred to us. It's very offensive to my race, my culture, my ancestors, No--we don't understand...play someone else A**hole!
What the fuck is this? You guys are white and exploiting Native Americans names with cheezy ass costumes? And why am I not THAT surprised?
You guys are so terrible at being Irish you had to mock another culture to justify your own sad, culturally depleted, sorry asses, didn't ya?
This is far from humorous. It is a clear act of disregard for the honorable names you have chose to attach to your idiotic, insensitive, spirits. All of you have displayed your ignorance and racist views. You have no honor. You are just a bunch of sorry imbeciles who should be slapped with a stupid stick. Now that you have been brought to attention, you will suffer the consequences of you bigoted routine and be held accountable wherever you show up at. Get ready, we are coming!
You bring dishonor and shame upon your own people with this ridicule. Our ways, our songs, our feathers, our tribes, our chiefs are sacred! I must wonder what kind of folks you entertain with this tasteless misrepresentation!
Native American here. I linked you to a note I wrote about the difficulties growing up Native American with people making racist mockeries of my culture. Please know, it's not flattering or harmless. What you're doing is harmful, ignorant, and if you continue after hearing heartfelt pleas and angry urging, malicious. Please choose a different name and theme for your band.
I'm sure you were raised to have respect for your culture and ways and I'm sure kids are being raised as such also, well it's very difficult as parents to raise our kids with strong self-esteem and confidence when people like you openly disrespect and further oppress a culture by mocking who they are. THINK ABOUT IF THE TABLES WERE TURNED!!!
This is so upsetting. I'm so used to my Irish friends being respectful of my culture. It has been my experience that many Irish people are in solidarity with us indigenous peoples. This is just disrespectful....It brings great dishonour to the relationship between our nations.
Dumbest...shit...ever...you racist fucks...
What an awful way to get attention towards your band!! I hope after reading the many comments of the people your band has offended you will be enlightened!...to change not only your name and the way you are dressing; but also to change your outlook on this proud race and their traditions. Your ignorance towards the Native people and their culture is sickening. And if this is intentional ridicule, and not ignorance, shame on you all! What goes around comes back around, karma will see you fit.
Totally not cool ...nor entertaining...what your so called attempt at dressing in "regalia" and naming band members as such is clearly a demonstration that represents total ignorance based on prejudice and discrimination!!!!
Report all of the pictures, and the page as racist content.
I am totally disgusted. I lived a life of racism. Hasn't time changed!!! This answers my question. There are always some ignorant people out there. What you do will come back on you.....believe me!!
I'm also thinking of starting a new band, I can't find a name for it maybe the honkeys, the niggers, spics or jews? I don't know let me know.
RACIST VERY RACIST I'm 100 percent Ojibwe and I'm outraged at this.
Should be called I stole everything from the Indians even the name the Indians!
I hate that I had to like this page in order to leave a comment. Do y'all think you are honoring American Indians? Do y'all think calling your band The Indians, giving yourselves the names of respected warriors, dressing in fake regalia is showing respect? You're wrong. What y'all are doing is insulting, disrespectful, and borders on identity theft. Think about what you've done. Rename your band. Now, as soon as I hit share, I will dislike this page.
I do not believe this is racist as much as it's ignorant. Yes, your stupidity is inadvertently a form of racism but what really shows is your ignorance. Why didn't you call yourselves "The Klansmen"? Is it because that would be considered in bad taste?
If you think something has to be hateful or malicious to be racist, wrong. Regardless of the intent, if it singles out one race for special treatment, it's racist.
For more on the subject, see "Indians" Showband Gets Attention and Most Racist Musical Group Ever?
P.S. I fixed minor errors in punctuation and capitalization.
"Indians" showband gets attention
About a year ago I posted on the Irish showband called "The Indians":
Most racist musical group ever?
Battle of the bands: Gays vs. Indians
Irish band is just harmless fun?
As you may recall, they dress up like this:
And describe themselves like this on their Facebook page (mistakes included):This "The Indians “BIG CHIEF” (Raymond Kelly), is lead singer and his stage name is GERONIMO. He is one of the finest vocalists in the business. Other members of the band are Eamonn (Sitting Bull) on keyboards, Kevin (Long Arrow) on drums, Brian (Crazy Horse) on bass guitar, and Tommy (Dull Knife) on lead guitar. I promptly forgot about them, but they're back in the public eye.
"Indians" hit the mainstream
The subject arose Sunday when Native America Calling, the Native radio show, posted this video on its Facebook page:
Soon after that the NativeCelebs page, where I contribute, also posted this video. Both postings garnered some negative comments, but nothing noteworthy.
I found that the "Indians" had a Facebook page with the text above. About 300 fans had posted the usual fan comments: "You're great!" "Loved your show!" Etc. I posted the link to my wall and asked what my Native friends thought of the band's using the names "Geronimo," "Sitting Bull," and "Crazy Horse."
People began reposting the link on their walls while expressing their disbelief. Even better, they went to the "Indians" page, "liked" it, and began posting comments. Here are some of them:
Natives attack "Indians" showband
The conflict continues
I found that the "Indians" had a second page with even more fans, so I posted the link to that too. People began sharing that, going to the page, and posting more comments.
Since it was late at night in Ireland, these comments went unanswered for hours. When 8 or 9 am rolled around in Ireland, the page operators presumably woke up, saw the comments, and deleted them. The same thing happened Monday. The comments accumulated in the afternoon and evening while the Irish slept, and they deleted them Tuesday morning.
Finally the page operators caught on that the protests weren't going away. We believe they restricted the pages so only people in Ireland and the UK could see them. In other words, they banned the Indians from commenting on the "Indians."
That's where the matter stands now. A wide swath of Indian country, including members of AIM, are now aware of the "Indians." They can expect criticism and protests for, well, the rest of their existence.
Unfortunately, there's not much we can do about a band that tours only the British Isles. I suggested writing a letter to Ireland's Human Rights Commission, with copies to any local indigenous groups similar to AIM and the media. Including the major outlets and any websites or bloggers who might be sympathetic. We'll see if that happens and does any good.
For more on harm of stereotypes, see Conservatives Use "Language of Savagery" and Grinding Indians into the Ground.
Below: Three stereotypes in one logo...impressive!
Most racist musical group ever?
Battle of the bands: Gays vs. Indians
Irish band is just harmless fun?
As you may recall, they dress up like this:
And describe themselves like this on their Facebook page (mistakes included):
"Indians" hit the mainstream
The subject arose Sunday when Native America Calling, the Native radio show, posted this video on its Facebook page:
Soon after that the NativeCelebs page, where I contribute, also posted this video. Both postings garnered some negative comments, but nothing noteworthy.
I found that the "Indians" had a Facebook page with the text above. About 300 fans had posted the usual fan comments: "You're great!" "Loved your show!" Etc. I posted the link to my wall and asked what my Native friends thought of the band's using the names "Geronimo," "Sitting Bull," and "Crazy Horse."
People began reposting the link on their walls while expressing their disbelief. Even better, they went to the "Indians" page, "liked" it, and began posting comments. Here are some of them:
Natives attack "Indians" showband
The conflict continues
I found that the "Indians" had a second page with even more fans, so I posted the link to that too. People began sharing that, going to the page, and posting more comments.
Since it was late at night in Ireland, these comments went unanswered for hours. When 8 or 9 am rolled around in Ireland, the page operators presumably woke up, saw the comments, and deleted them. The same thing happened Monday. The comments accumulated in the afternoon and evening while the Irish slept, and they deleted them Tuesday morning.
Finally the page operators caught on that the protests weren't going away. We believe they restricted the pages so only people in Ireland and the UK could see them. In other words, they banned the Indians from commenting on the "Indians."
That's where the matter stands now. A wide swath of Indian country, including members of AIM, are now aware of the "Indians." They can expect criticism and protests for, well, the rest of their existence.
Unfortunately, there's not much we can do about a band that tours only the British Isles. I suggested writing a letter to Ireland's Human Rights Commission, with copies to any local indigenous groups similar to AIM and the media. Including the major outlets and any websites or bloggers who might be sympathetic. We'll see if that happens and does any good.
For more on harm of stereotypes, see Conservatives Use "Language of Savagery" and Grinding Indians into the Ground.
Below: Three stereotypes in one logo...impressive!
July 02, 2010
Irish band is just harmless fun?
Michael Cooke tries once again to excuse racism--in particular, the Most Racist Musical Group Ever?ok, the performance is racist in that the stereotypes are so over the top and disrespectful. But do you think any member of that band ever met an American Indian or ever expects to? It's why I used the phrase "gypped" for 'ripped off' for so many years, oblivious to it being an ethnic slut. If you think racism has be malicious to be harmful...wow, you're more naive than I thought. The ignorant, unknowing brand of racism can be just as harmful as the malignant kind. What matters is the effect on the recipient, not the intent of the offender.
Obviously the purveyors of mascots such as Chief Wahoo don't sit around thinking, "How can we hurt Indians the most?" But the child who gets taunted for being a "savage" doesn't know or care about the Cleveland Indians' intent. The racist stereotypes percolate through our culture and cause harm whether the intent is negative or not.
The vast majority of people from slaveowners to minstrel-show performers to the Dudesons thought what they were doing was good or at least benign. Their opinion of their own racist actions couldn't be less relevant. It's like asking someone who abused a woman to explain himself: "I didn't mean to hurt her. I was just having some fun." It's worthless.
Again, this is Racism and Stereotyping 101. What I refuse to entertain is your ignorance of how stereotyping harms people. Until you cite and quote a source other than your own made-up opinions on the subject, don't expect me to take you seriously.
For more on the Irish band, see Battle of the Bands: Gays vs. Indians. For previous demolitions of the "harmless fun" argument, see Deadliest Warrior vs. The Dudesons and Ethical Code for Native Elders Needed. For more on the harm of stereotypes, Why the Media Matters and Stereotypes Teach Natives They're Inferior.
Obviously the purveyors of mascots such as Chief Wahoo don't sit around thinking, "How can we hurt Indians the most?" But the child who gets taunted for being a "savage" doesn't know or care about the Cleveland Indians' intent. The racist stereotypes percolate through our culture and cause harm whether the intent is negative or not.
The vast majority of people from slaveowners to minstrel-show performers to the Dudesons thought what they were doing was good or at least benign. Their opinion of their own racist actions couldn't be less relevant. It's like asking someone who abused a woman to explain himself: "I didn't mean to hurt her. I was just having some fun." It's worthless.
Again, this is Racism and Stereotyping 101. What I refuse to entertain is your ignorance of how stereotyping harms people. Until you cite and quote a source other than your own made-up opinions on the subject, don't expect me to take you seriously.
For more on the Irish band, see Battle of the Bands: Gays vs. Indians. For previous demolitions of the "harmless fun" argument, see Deadliest Warrior vs. The Dudesons and Ethical Code for Native Elders Needed. For more on the harm of stereotypes, Why the Media Matters and Stereotypes Teach Natives They're Inferior.
June 30, 2010
Battle of the bands: Gays vs. Indians
As usual, gay critic Michael Cooke doesn't see the harm of Native stereotypes. In this case, the stereotypes promoted by the Irish showband called the Indians. Here's his response to Most Racist Musical Group Ever?Well it had me burst out laughing 'cause it was so over the top corny. I offered the following example to make the point clear:
If a band called the Gays had been performing semi-naked in bondage gear for 40 years on TV and radio, representing most people's only exposure to homosexuals, what would you say? Just another case of harmless stereotyping? Musicians can't influence the public?
Uh-huh, sure. Just look at Elvis, the Beatles, Dylan, metal, punk, disco, rap, hip hop, etc. No influence there, right? Show us your degenerate sex routines, band called Gays. You can't influence us!There was the Village people, they are almost exactly the Gay band you're inventing. I guess because the members are gay....
There is a Japanese TV show with a comedian that is not Gay pretending to be gay and making an ass out himself. For many Japanese that may be the only Gay they know. Certainly there's decades of movies where the only gay characters are criminals. Disney's bad guys are always kind of queer. No, the Village People aren't anything like what I'm talking about. I'm talking about band members not wearing police or cowboy outfits, which don't contribute to gay stereotyping, but bondage gear. I.e., flaunting their "gay" behavior in the most stereotypical way to mainstream audiences. Doing so not for a year or two but for 40 years on TV shows and radio stations.
People do get negative impressions from gays who dress outrageously in gay pride parades. Now transplant that behavior to the Ed Sullivan Show and Top 40 radio. The drastically increased audiences would drastically increase the stereotypes' influence.
In short, try again.
"Japanese TV show"...huh?
As for your other examples:
Gay characters who are only criminals are stereotypical, so they contribute to the prejudice against gays.
I doubt the Japanese are more tolerant of homosexuals than we are. The TV show you described undoubtedly contributes to their ignorance and intolerance.
Whatever point you were trying to make, you failed to make it.Because you don't have the New York gay bar experience you don't understand that every costume in village people is in in-house gay stereotype of either how Gay men dress or the way Gay men are marketed to.
I swear the point I made is clear enough. But it's like talking to a real racist--there's nothing you can say that will make them understand? What applies in the gay-bar scene doesn't apply to America as a whole. Try again.
"But it's like talking to a real racist--there's nothing you can say that will make them understand." Yes, I find that to be true when talking to you. You seem convinced that racism against Indians doesn't exist or something.
You've failed to address my point about a Gays band with 40 years of exposing people to the worst stereotypes. Your references to the Village People, some Japanese TV show, and gays as criminals are irrelevant or support my argument. Try, try again.
The Village People contributed in a minor way to gay stereotyping. My hypothetical Gays band would contribute much more. It would influence a whole generation of fans just like the Indians band has done in Europe.
For more of Cooke's opinions, see Stereotypes Disappear "Organically"? and Stereotypes Okay in "Cultural Commons"?
Below: The Village People.
If a band called the Gays had been performing semi-naked in bondage gear for 40 years on TV and radio, representing most people's only exposure to homosexuals, what would you say? Just another case of harmless stereotyping? Musicians can't influence the public?
Uh-huh, sure. Just look at Elvis, the Beatles, Dylan, metal, punk, disco, rap, hip hop, etc. No influence there, right? Show us your degenerate sex routines, band called Gays. You can't influence us!
There is a Japanese TV show with a comedian that is not Gay pretending to be gay and making an ass out himself. For many Japanese that may be the only Gay they know. Certainly there's decades of movies where the only gay characters are criminals. Disney's bad guys are always kind of queer.
People do get negative impressions from gays who dress outrageously in gay pride parades. Now transplant that behavior to the Ed Sullivan Show and Top 40 radio. The drastically increased audiences would drastically increase the stereotypes' influence.
In short, try again.
"Japanese TV show"...huh?
As for your other examples:
Gay characters who are only criminals are stereotypical, so they contribute to the prejudice against gays.
I doubt the Japanese are more tolerant of homosexuals than we are. The TV show you described undoubtedly contributes to their ignorance and intolerance.
Whatever point you were trying to make, you failed to make it.
I swear the point I made is clear enough. But it's like talking to a real racist--there's nothing you can say that will make them understand?
"But it's like talking to a real racist--there's nothing you can say that will make them understand." Yes, I find that to be true when talking to you. You seem convinced that racism against Indians doesn't exist or something.
You've failed to address my point about a Gays band with 40 years of exposing people to the worst stereotypes. Your references to the Village People, some Japanese TV show, and gays as criminals are irrelevant or support my argument. Try, try again.
The Village People contributed in a minor way to gay stereotyping. My hypothetical Gays band would contribute much more. It would influence a whole generation of fans just like the Indians band has done in Europe.
For more of Cooke's opinions, see Stereotypes Disappear "Organically"? and Stereotypes Okay in "Cultural Commons"?
Below: The Village People.
June 29, 2010
Most racist musical group ever?
If you though the Indian chief in the Village People was bad, here's an entire band comprised of stupid stereotypes:
Forget the cowboys, meet the Indians... Just over three decades ago a young country and Irish band were looking for a gimmick to capture the imagination of the huge Irish public who were filling the dance halls listening to their favourite showbands, and country and Irish bands. They had the talent but something extra was needed to draw the attention of the Irish music media.
Someone suggested that Ireland had enough cowboys in the music business but that it was desperately short of Indians, and so The Indians were born. And from day one the visual aspect of authentic Red Indian outfits complete with full war paint guaranteed a sight on stage that could not be ignored. Whoever wrote this article obviously doesn't know the meaning of "authentic." Onward:The latest line up of The Indians includes: Stephen Proctor, who assumes the stage name Big Chief White Cloud; band leader Eamon Keane is Sitting Bull on keyboards, accordion and lead vocals; bass guitarist and lead vocalist Brian Woodfull is also known as Crazy Horse, perhaps due to the nightly exposure of a bare rump during his act; the lead guitarist is Tommy Hopkins, also known as Dull Knife; and new member Kevin McKeown is on percussion and lead vocals, now happily signing himself Long Arrow. Coincidentally, the band was known as Casino for six years before it became the Indians:
All About The Casino/Indians Showband (1964-Present) [includes dozens of stereotypical photos]
The Indians--Ireland's Top Showband [official website]
The Indians Showband--"Son Don't Go Near The Indians"
Comment: Way to honor Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse...by doing the Wigwam Wiggle with your bare butt. I'm sure their descendants appreciate it.
I probably could spend hours deconstructing this stereotypical band and its stereotypical songs. But let's jump to the bottom line: most racist musical group ever?
Imagine if the musicians dressed up in blackface, donned grass skirts and bones through their noses, and called themselves the Spearchuckers. That band would be exactly as offensive and harmful as this band is.
Ever wonder where the European hobbyists who imitate Plains Indians get their ideas from? Now you know: The Irish Indians band.
More fun with stereotypes
But wait...don't change the channel. Now that you've heard the Indians, there's more!
Coming up next on the Newspaper Rock Variety Hour: The Slant-Eyes sing their hit Ding Dong, the Ching-Chong Song. The Wetbacks sing their hit Frito Bandito and His Spicy Señorita. And the Greedy Jews sing their hit Don't Heckle My Shekels, Mr. Jekyll.
Next week, the Spearchuckers will be back with their hits Bling and Crack and Baby Makes Three and Fried Chicken Finger-Lickin' Lip-Smackin' Good. And be sure not to miss the debut of the Eye-Talians and their smash singles We Will Wop You (Upside the Head) and Mafioso Mama, Your Gun Goes O-Bama.
Anybody not get the point yet? I could go on....
How this posting originated
A British woman--a lecturer in religious studies at the University of Winchester--brought the Indians to my attention. She asked what she could do to get rid of the stereotypes. My response to that:
With the costumes and all, the band appears to be heavily invested in the "Indians" name. They've been using it it for 40 years. I doubt they'll change it just because real Indians don't like it.
We already know how they'd justify themselves. "Harmless fun"..."just a joke"..."no offense intended"..."we respect Indians"..."Indians love us"..."you're being hyper-sensitive"..."don't be so PC"...etc. In other words, a Dudesons-style minstrel-show defense. As long as they say they're "honoring" or "satirizing" Indians--I'm not sure what the difference is--that excuses any mockery.
As I told her, I think you'd have to undertake a long-term campaign to cajole them. Create a blog and write about them, start a Facebook group and solicit members, write letters to the media, maybe even stage protests at concerts. If they have sponsors or advertisers, threaten to boycott them. If enough people join you, the band may feel pressured to change.
But I'm guessing it won't happen until the original band members retire or die. Hitting them when they're in transition may be a good bet. They may be willing to reconsider their shtick then.
For more on non-Natives doing "Indian" songs, see Oldfield's Sentinel and Italian Dance of the Indians.
Below: Woo-woo, it's the Indians! Be sure to get the band with the "authentic" tomahawk, feather, and teepee in its logo.
Forget the cowboys, meet the Indians...
Someone suggested that Ireland had enough cowboys in the music business but that it was desperately short of Indians, and so The Indians were born. And from day one the visual aspect of authentic Red Indian outfits complete with full war paint guaranteed a sight on stage that could not be ignored.
All About The Casino/Indians Showband (1964-Present) [includes dozens of stereotypical photos]
The Indians--Ireland's Top Showband [official website]
The Indians Showband--"Son Don't Go Near The Indians"
Comment: Way to honor Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse...by doing the Wigwam Wiggle with your bare butt. I'm sure their descendants appreciate it.
I probably could spend hours deconstructing this stereotypical band and its stereotypical songs. But let's jump to the bottom line: most racist musical group ever?
Imagine if the musicians dressed up in blackface, donned grass skirts and bones through their noses, and called themselves the Spearchuckers. That band would be exactly as offensive and harmful as this band is.
Ever wonder where the European hobbyists who imitate Plains Indians get their ideas from? Now you know: The Irish Indians band.
More fun with stereotypes
But wait...don't change the channel. Now that you've heard the Indians, there's more!
Coming up next on the Newspaper Rock Variety Hour: The Slant-Eyes sing their hit Ding Dong, the Ching-Chong Song. The Wetbacks sing their hit Frito Bandito and His Spicy Señorita. And the Greedy Jews sing their hit Don't Heckle My Shekels, Mr. Jekyll.
Next week, the Spearchuckers will be back with their hits Bling and Crack and Baby Makes Three and Fried Chicken Finger-Lickin' Lip-Smackin' Good. And be sure not to miss the debut of the Eye-Talians and their smash singles We Will Wop You (Upside the Head) and Mafioso Mama, Your Gun Goes O-Bama.
Anybody not get the point yet? I could go on....
How this posting originated
A British woman--a lecturer in religious studies at the University of Winchester--brought the Indians to my attention. She asked what she could do to get rid of the stereotypes. My response to that:
With the costumes and all, the band appears to be heavily invested in the "Indians" name. They've been using it it for 40 years. I doubt they'll change it just because real Indians don't like it.
We already know how they'd justify themselves. "Harmless fun"..."just a joke"..."no offense intended"..."we respect Indians"..."Indians love us"..."you're being hyper-sensitive"..."don't be so PC"...etc. In other words, a Dudesons-style minstrel-show defense. As long as they say they're "honoring" or "satirizing" Indians--I'm not sure what the difference is--that excuses any mockery.
As I told her, I think you'd have to undertake a long-term campaign to cajole them. Create a blog and write about them, start a Facebook group and solicit members, write letters to the media, maybe even stage protests at concerts. If they have sponsors or advertisers, threaten to boycott them. If enough people join you, the band may feel pressured to change.
But I'm guessing it won't happen until the original band members retire or die. Hitting them when they're in transition may be a good bet. They may be willing to reconsider their shtick then.
For more on non-Natives doing "Indian" songs, see Oldfield's Sentinel and Italian Dance of the Indians.
Below: Woo-woo, it's the Indians! Be sure to get the band with the "authentic" tomahawk, feather, and teepee in its logo.
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