Debating Carrie Underwood

I posted Questions About Carrie Underwood on Facebook's NativeCelebs page, where I'm an administrator. This led to a series of misunderstandings about the question of who's an Indian. You can read the discussion here if you're a Facebook member:

Questions about Carrie Underwood

But the key comments are the ones I posted toward the end:

When I try to distinguish Indians from non-Indians, the complaint that I "don't understand" often comes up. For instance:

Rob shouldn't judge Natives

Determining Indians = waste of time?

Rob doesn't understand "mutts"?

But I'll continue to assert that I do understand. From what I've seen, Natives tend to be inclusive--not turning away people because of their "mixed blood." But welcoming someone into the community isn't the same as making the person an official tribal member. From what I've seen, Indians are not handing out the label "Indian" to anyone who wants it--e.g., anyone with an ounce of "Indian blood."

And rightly so, I'd say. "Indian" status confers several advantages: treaty rights and benefits, casino payments, hiring preferences, etc. The real "road to a bad place" is when an organization such as Haskell University can't distinguish between Vine Deloria Jr., Ward Churchill, Johnny Depp, Taylor Lautner, Carrie Underwood, Tinsel Korey, and Sister Wolf Moon and her New Age crystals. When anyone can claim to be an Indian without meeting some criteria, then everyone and no one becomes an Indian. Then we reach a point where "Indian" ceases to have meaning and we're all just Americans.

P.S. In the above list, I'd call only Deloria an Indian. If they were all actors, I'd include only him in NativeCelebs.

This is the kind of determination we have to make as administrators. We can't and shouldn't include everyone who wants to be on the site or it will become meaningless. We have to distinguish Indians from non-Indians by some criteria or every Tom, Dick, and Iron Eyes Cody will continue taking jobs from real Indians.

The debate continues

Someone named Margaret elaborated on a statement she posted earlier:"When we begin to sort people by their blood line and assign or deny them certain rights accordingly, we are on a road to a bad place."

The above statement is supported by indisputable historical fact and I stand by those words.

Examples: Nazi Germany, slavery in early U.S., attempted extermination of Indians in the U.S. and Canada, denial of voting rights to non-whites and racial segregation in the U.S., ... the list can go on and on. Historically, governments have proven untrustworthy when wielding the power to determine which races get what rights.The question was whether we should try to distinguish between Indians and non-Indians. I say yes, we should, for the reasons I listed. If your answer is no, explain how we distinguish between Wes Studi, Adam Beach, and Brother Sky Eagle the New Ager who claims to be an Indian.

In the examples you gave, the so-called sorting into groups isn't what caused the problems. The assignment and denial of rights is what caused the problems. You can identify people by race, religion, ethnicity, or culture without harming their rights in the slightest. We're doing that right now in the 2010 Census.

As NativeCelebs administrators, we don't have the power to deny people their government-based rights. We do have the power to distinguish between Indians and non-Indians if the facts and evidence are available. So again, should we try to distinguish people such as Carrie Underwood: yes or no?

As I've indicated, I disagree with the attitude that ethnicity doesn't matter because we're all Americans. I'm clear that we shouldn't discriminate based on ethnicity, but I'm also clear that we should acknowledge ethnic groups and their traditions. We're not (all) Americans of a single ethnicity and culture, we're Americans of many ethnicities and cultures.

People have every right to sort themselves into different ethnic and cultural groups. This sorting adds to the multicultural richness of our country and causes no harm except to those who believe whites should rule. It absolutely does not lead to any kind of "bad place."

For more on the subject, see Defining Who's an Indian.

Questions about Carrie Underwood

On Facebook's NativeCelebs page, the name of country singer Carrie Underwood came up. She's set to star in her first movie:

Carrie Underwood to make film debut in 'Soul Surfer,' biopic of shark-attack victim Bethany Hamilton

Some sources list Underwood as a Muscogee Creek Indian. In Carrie Underwood, Creek Idol? I quoted these sources. In particular, I quoted her Wikipedia entry that said:Carrie Marie Underwood was born to Stephen and Carole Underwood in Muskogee, Oklahoma, and was raised on her parents' farm in the rural town of Checotah, Oklahoma. She has two older sisters, Shanna and Stephanie, and is a member of Muskogee Creek Nation of Oklahoma.People make fun of Wikipedia, but it gets vetted constantly by readers and editors. I consider it semi-official, at least. I don't think falsehoods stay on it for long.

But now her Wikipedia entry makes no mention of Underwood's being a tribal member or having any Native blood or ties:Carrie Marie Underwood was born to Stephen and Carole Underwood in Muskogee, Oklahoma. She was raised on her parents' farm in the rural town of Checotah, Oklahoma. She has two older sisters, Shanna Means and Stephanie Shelton.The deletion seems significant. People don't take information out unless it can't stand up to scrutiny.

More sources

Checking around the Web raises more questions than it answers. Here's what other sources say:

Carrie UnderwoodReportedly a member of the Muscogee Creek Nation (mainly information spread through her Wikipedia entry, which carries no credence whatsoever). Prior to admission to a tribe, often a "Certificate of Degree of Indian or Alaska Native Blood" must be obtained from the Bureau of Indian Affairs. The Creek tribe at one time had a 1/32 blood quantum requirement. Alternatively, lineal descent to an individual listed on the 1906 Dawes Roll will grant citizenship, no matter the blood quantum. It is not publicly known how much Creek blood Underwood has in her, if any, or whether any membership, if it exists at all, is honorary or actual.What contributions has the Creek Indian's culture given us today?I am Muskogee Creek.

Carrie Underwood is only 1/32 Creek--we don't claim her as part of the tribe (blood quantum rule). She does, however have Creek ancestry, albeit extremely diluted.Carrie Underwood:  American Country IdolDuring her university years, Carrie Underwood was also actively involved in the Sigma Sigma Sigma sorority, and maintained her close ties with the Muscogee Creek Nation of Oklahoma.Close ties, but not necessarily tribal membership or even Native blood.

Cherokee celebs actually Creek?By the way, country singer Carrie Underwood is a full citizen of the Creek Nation. She dyes her hair blonde.

Brother Mountain LionHmm. I tend not to trust anyone named Brother Mountain Lion or Sister Wolf Moon. Until we hear from the Muscogee Creek Nation or Underwood herself, I'd say her status is doubtful. Best guess is that she's 1/32 Creek but not an enrolled tribal member.

For more on the subject, see "Actual Indian" Defined.