August 17, 2007

COWBOYS & ALIENS, vol. 2

We get e-mail:Hey Rob,

My name is Rick Hershey, I'm the new artist on the second Cowboys & Aliens comic. We have a great team together and I recalled your comments and review and wanted to send a link your way to check it out. We have been doing our best to get rid of a lot of the stereotypes and horrible cliches found in the original and are focusing more on the characters, history, and cultures involved in the setting.

Anyway, here is a link to the comic so far, and I would love to hear your thoughts on it or anyone else you think would be interested.

Worlds at War Prelude

Thanks for your time.
Rick Hershey
An introduction to WORLDS AT WAR from the website:Well, the time has finally arrived for us to launch the new project from Platinum--Cowboys and Aliens: Worlds at War.

Worlds at War is a massive webcomic project that picks up directly where the first Cowboys and Aliens (http://www.drunkduck.com/CowboysAndAliens/) graphic novel left off. Zeke, Verity, and War Hawk (as well as several others who you will most certainly see more of) have just defeated the House of Dar. But, the story doesn't end there, as the other great Angaaran Houses are headed straight for Earth. It will be up to our heroes (and many new heroes from all around the world) to outwit the technologically superior Angaarans.

The first book, Prelude: A Call for Heroes, will be a series of various short stories, recapping the original graphic novel and introducing a variety of new characters that will play a major role in their various regions. Once the first book is wrapped up, we will delve much more deeply into each region being invaded (and to just give you a taste of what's to come, the Angaaran's will be invading countries from all around the world, such as Russia, Japan, and Africa, just to name a few, but those are down the line). We will be adding new comics to DrunkDuck nearly every day of the week (updates will be Monday through Saturday and will eventually expand to Sundays as well).
Comment:  Judging by this excerpt, volume 2 of COWBOYS & ALIENS has taken a quantum leap forward in terms of portraying Indians authentically. It suggests the Apache are a people rich with culture, history, and religion--i.e., not savages who mindlessly attack wagon trains or dance around fires.

I don't know any of the Apache words or stories mentioned, so I checked. "Indii," the Apache name for themselves, seems reasonably accurate. As one website put it,Their name for themselves is N'de, Inde or Tinde ("the people").My one complaint is that the Apache generally didn't live in tipis. However, the easternmost branches of the people, the Plains Apache, did. As one website explainsThe Kiowa Apache Indians, a small group of Athabascan (Apachean)-speaking people, ranged the area of present southwestern Oklahoma and the Panhandle of Texas during the nineteenth century. Although their common name is derived from the erroneous belief that they were a detached band of Apaches from New Mexico and Arizona, their myths and oral history tell of a northern home, probably near the eastern base of the Rocky Mountains, when they were an independent tribe with north and south divisions. They called themselves "Naishandina," which in their tongue meant "our people." While there is no clear account of the reasons why they migrated south, the fact that they were a small group among primarily hostile tribes caused them to become affiliated with the Kiowas for mutual protection; as far back as there is any record or knowledge, they have functioned as a band of the Kiowa tribe, though they speak a completely unrelated language. A few of the old Apache men usually learned a little Kiowan, but sign language was the primary means of communication between the Kiowa and its Apache band. Although many scholars lean toward the view that the Kiowa Apaches were linked with one of the Athabascan divisions, some speculate that they were originally eastern or Plains Apaches who became separated from their kinsmen when the Comanches first intruded into the southern Plains. Aside from linguistic differences, the Kiowa Apaches were practically indistinguishable from the Kiowa proper. They were buffalo-hunting, tepee-dwelling, horse and travois nomads, with soldier societies and medicine bundles (four).COWBOYS & ALIENS' Apaches could be these Apaches...except these Apaches didn't call themselves "Inde" or "Indii." So we have an apparent mistake here.

Other than that, the new volume looks good. I may have to check it out.

13 comments:

writerfella said...

Writerfella here --
Oh, zounds! The Apache Tribe of Oklahoma, affiliated as one-third of the KCA group (Kiowas, Comanches, and Kiowa-Apaches) is not a true band of Athabaskan Apaches. Instead, they were a ragtag group of tribal castoffs who came together in order to survive. There were Delawares among them, and Comanches, and Arapahoes, and Apaches, among others, who had been exiled or cast out of their tribal groups for crimes and misdemeanors. No lie. The principal language they spoke was Apachean, to be sure. And, unlike the Southwestern Apacheans, they called themselves 'Na-I-Sha,' a name that comes down to today. The true Apacheans located in Oklahoma have no respect for this group (truly a group rather than an actual tribe) and also entertain no contact or commerce with them. The ragtag 'Kiowa-Apaches' so were called by EuroMan because, when the Kiowa were captured by the US Army, there was a small group of Apachean speakers who more or less were camp followers to the Kiowa. The history is this: the band formed, followed the Kiowa on their buffalo migrations, and lived off their trash. They were so poor, they almost went naked, and their numbers almost always were falling due to starvation. Finally, the Kiowas sat down with such people and made a pact -- "You are the Cah-Awns, the Poor Ones, and there would be no honor in killing you. You can continue to trail us, but you never can enter our camp, you never can mix your children with ours, and none of you ever can marry a Kiowa."
With such a pact in place, the Kiowa went their way and mostly ignored their distant entourage. When the Kiowa and Comanche and Wichita finally were defeated and interned on their Indian Territory reservation, the "Kiowa-Apaches" became a recognized political group by the US Government. Today, they number some 800, have their own tribal complex, and even have a postage stamp casino operation called the Silver Buffalo. But the true Apacheans at Apache, OK, neither have nor want any dealings with the Kiowa Apaches. They call them 'chin-i-chi-ti,' those-with-wet-feet, since Kiowa Apache feet sweat extensively and have a bad smell. By the bye, 'Na-I-Sha,' which they adapted as the name they call themselves, is Arapahoan meaning "thief."
Their much-touted 'history' of great battles, great warriors, and great chiefs totally is imaginary and fictitious, given published treatment by Alice Mariott in her book about the Kiowa.
writerfella warns that, if it indeed is the Kiowa-Apaches who will be enshrined in COWBOYS & ALIENS 2, it will be a great travesty, no matter how sensitively it is portrayed...
All Best
Russ Bates
'writerfella'

Empty Room Studios said...

Thanks for talking about this Rob, hopefully we can continue to both stay true to historical accuracy and try and follow a rough path set before us in the previous book.

funny that you mentioned the use of tipis use in the story, our most recent post mentions that and discusses the use. Hope that helps.

Rob said...

Russ, I don't think they're going to get more specific than calling the Indians "Apaches." In fact, it took me several pages to figure out that much.

I don't think your account of the Kiowa-Apaches contradicts the one I posted. But you put a much more negative spin on their history.

Rick, I don't see any posting on your "Comic Blog" other than your launch notice. Are you talking about a posting in one of your forums, or what? Give us a URL and we'll consider your views on Apache tipis.

writerfella said...

Writerfella here --
Negative 'spin' or no, who better to know the reality of the Kiowa-Apache but the Kiowa? The question becomes: who has the most to gain or to lose, if either side's story is untrue? In actual point of fact, we of the KCA Confederacy have our own Pequots with whom we now must deal. In 1976, when the Claims Commission case for the value of the former WKCA reservation was won, the $40 million thus awarded was assaulted by a Kiowa-Apache lawsuit, demanding fully one-third of the award for some 500 people. Luckily, when the court heard the actual history of the "Apache Tribe of Oklahoma," he told their lawyers that their existence as a part of the Confederacy was at the sufferance of the Kiowa and the Comanche and then dismissed the case.
If you don't live in our neighborhood, all you know is what you read in the papers...
All Best
Russ Bates
'writerfella'

Rob said...

I imagine the Kiowa-Apaches know best about themselves. When you quote one of them admitting they were beggars and thieves, then I'll be impressed.

Here's a history of the Kiowa-Apache that says nothing about their being castoffs and camp followers:

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/tribes/kiowa/kiowaapachehist.htm

writerfella said...

Writerfella here --
The current cultural consultant and ersatz tribal historian for 'The Apache Tribe of Oklahoma,' Eldon Stumblingbear, former Animal Control officer for the city of Anadarko, travels from town to town officially representing his tribe and speaking on their history. His translation of 'Na-I-Sha?' THIEF! His take on the 'history' of his own tribe? Mostly fictional. That good enough? writerfella kids you not...
All Best
Russ Bates
'writerfella'

alanajoli said...

Hey Rob,

Just wanted to let you know, I've put up links in our Saturday posts to where I got all my research from. (Citations and all!) The most recent one, posted this Saturday, shows where I pulled my information about tipis. I also listed which particular Apache groups were historically known to use them. The original Cowboys and Aliens was vague about location, as well as about which group of Apaches were featured, so if we've fudged things a bit in that direction, that's why.

The word "indii" that I'm using came from a number of modern forums where people were discussing variations on the Apache dialects. There were a ton of variations I came across when I was searching, and I went with the one that seemed to best reflect the story we're telling.

One of the things I've noticed, particularly in doing the modern research, is how difficult it is to sort out "genuine" facts from "corrupted" facts--or regional facts, etc. There are plenty of folks who say they're experts, some of them anthropologists, some of them tribal members, and even among those divisions, they seem to contradict themselves. (I used the autobiography of Geronimo as a source, but there's some debate on whether or not that source has been corrupted itself by people who, at the time, wanted to show Geronimo in a different light.)

At any rate, the majority of the choices we made, I've tried to give references for in our Saturday bonus posts. We'll probably make mistakes--it's hard to get everything right--but we are trying, and hopefully some folks will be interested enough in the links I've put up to do a little further research on their own! (I mean, we've got aliens. No matter how much research we do, we're still fiction.)

Thanks for reading us!
-Alana (writer, Cowboys and Aliens: Worlds at War)

Rob said...

Thanks for the update, Alana. But we still need a URL or a better indication of where you posted the info. If you're talking about one of the Drunk Duck forums, there are hundreds of postings there.

Rob said...

As for your comment, Russ, here's the intro to the webpage I mentioned:

Kiowa Apache. A small Athapascan tribe, associated with the Kiowa from the earliest traditional period and forming a component part of the Kiowa tribal circle, although preserving its distinct language. They call themselves Na-ishañ-dina, 'our people'. In the earliest French records of the 17th century, in Lewis and Clark's narrative, full in their first treaty in 1837, they are called by various forms of 'Gattacka', the name by which they are known to the Pawnee; and they are possibly the Kaskaia, 'Bad Hearts', of Long in 1820. The Kiowa call them by the contemptuous title Semät, 'Thieves'.

alanajoli said...

Oh, sorry! They're not posted on the forums, the links to the references are actually a part of the comic--every Saturday we're doing a semi-factual post. (It's told in the voice of one of the characters, and I provide the references at the end of the prose piece.)

Here are the links: http://www.drunkduck.com/Worlds_at_War_Prelude/index.php?p=256068

http://www.drunkduck.com/Worlds_at_War_Prelude/index.php?p=258623

http://www.drunkduck.com/Worlds_at_War_Prelude/index.php?p=262263

Thanks for checking us out and giving us a shot! I hope that our efforts toward accuracy carry some weight, even if we sometimes misstep along the way. As Rick said, respect is important to us, and we hope that comes through loud and clear.

Anonymous said...

This is how wars are started. Negativity is a sickness that infects you without notice. Russell, how can you have such unchecked aggression for an indigenous people? No matter the stance of what "group" they are from, or their true origins. The indigenous people of this land will never find peace in this world, only in the next. Also, if you want to write such negativity you should site your quotes, and your credentials. Have you personally studied the Kiowa-Apaches, Kiowas, or Comanches? Your unhappiness will continue. I send love and compassion to all the mentally deficient.

Rob said...

You should see what Russ said about the Pequots, the Chickasaws, and the Cherokees, Anonymous.

Thanks for trying to help Russ with his mental deficiencies.

Anonymous said...

I sure did Rob. At least we know when we die that our hearts are pure and happy.