March 30, 2009

1923 letter to Indians

Wanda Lord has posted a 1923 letter from the Department of the Interior's Office of Indian Affairs to Indians. It begins:TO ALL INDIANS:

Not long ago I held a meeting of all Superintendants, Missionaries and Indians, at which the feeling of those present was strong against Indian dances.
I didn't realize missionaries were US officials in 1923. I must've missed the missionary branch of government when I read the Constitution.

What problem is the Commissioner concerned about?I feel that something must be done to stop the neglect of stock, crops, gardens, and home interests caused by these dances or by celebrations, pow-wows, and gatherings of any kind that take the time of the Indians for many days.

Now, what I want you to think about very seriously is that you must first of all try to make your own living, which you cannot do unless you work faithfully and take care of what comes from your labor.
Don't think Indians are merely goofing off, either. It's much worse than that.No good comes from your "give-away" custom at dances and it should be stopped. It is not right to torture your bodies or to handle poisonous snakes in your ceremonies.Shocking! Who knew Indians were so depraved? Giving things away as if this were Communist Russia and not the good ol' US of A, where acquiring things is the default religion.

And torturing themselves and handling poisonous snakes...shades of Abu Ghraib! Let's hope they learn safe 'n' sane Judeo-Christian practices such as cutting babies and eating Jesus.

The Commissioner notes that he's merely asking Indians to stop, but if they don't comply within a year, he'll have to take action. He knows best, so these Indians had better listen to him.

Unfortunately, you'll have to register with Facebook to see the original letter. But since Facebook is becoming the new AOL or Google, you probably should do that anyway.

For more on Natives and Christianity, see such postings as:

Native spirituality is "demonic"?
"Spiritual terrorism" against Indians
Native truth vs. Christian lies
Why Natives aren't Christians
Give Christianity a chance?
Jesus didn't save Indians

For more quotes such as those in this letter, see Uncivilized Indians.


Stephen said...

It's a tad hypocritical to post nonsense like this:

"There is a huge amount we can learn from Islam in its social solidarity, its appreciation of the collective good and the generosity and strength of human relationships."

And then critique Christianity, it seems you've fallen for the 'Islam is a religion of peace' myth. The teachings of Islam make mein kampf look tame by comparison.

Rob said...

Why is that quote "nonsense"? Is Islam another subject you think you know more about than I do?

Most of the world's billion-plus Muslims haven't engaged in violence and prefer peace to war. Your mistake if you think otherwise.

Here are some postings on what Islam teaches about peace. Read 'em and educate yourself.

As for Christianity, in this posting I criticized the missionaries who wanted to abolish "heathen" Indian religions. Do you have a problem with that?

Stephen said...

"Why is that quote "nonsense"? Is Islam another subject you think you know more about than I do?"

Because Islam is truly a foul religion here's a few verses:

Sura (33:57) - "Lo! those who malign Allah and His messenger, Allah hath cursed them in this world and the Hereafter, and hath prepared for them the doom of the disdained"

(In other words Islam is anti free speech.)

Sura (5:38) - "As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power."

Bukhari (81:780) - The Prophet said, "The hand should be cut off for stealing something that is worth a quarter of a Dinar or more."

Sura (24:32) - "And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves..."

(Breeding slaves based on fitness; this only one of the many verses that condone slavery).

Bukhari (59:643) - "Testify that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah, or else I will chop off your neck!"

Sura (4:11) - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females"


Ishaq 593 - "From the captives of Hunayn, Allah's Messenger gave [his son-in-law] Ali a slave girl called Baytab and he gave [future Caliph] Uthman a slave girl called Zaynab and [future Caliph] Umar another."

(Muhammad treated women like party favors, handing out slave girls to his cronies for sex.)

Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."

(Wow what a peaceful religion!)

Sura (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

(Wife beating is a-okay.)

Sura (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."


Sura (4:34) - "Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them."

(More sexism.)

Sura (8:15-16) - "O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them. If any do turn his back to them on such a day - unless it be in a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own)- he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed)!"

(Not only does Muhammad lay down the principle that a Muslim can serve time in Hell, but failing to kill unbelievers when directed is a sure way to bring this about.)

al-Tirmidhi, Sunan 1:152 - [Muhammad said] "Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver."

(One of the many anti-homosexual verses).

Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. (3:110)

(Blatant racism.)

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29 Jizya is the money that non-Muslims must pay to their Muslim overlords in a pure Islamic state.) Once again it isn't exactly peaceful.

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe. (8:55)

Sura (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Stephen said...

"Most of the world's billion-plus Muslims haven't engaged in violence and prefer peace to war. Your mistake if you think otherwise."

I never said anything about Muslims in my post; I'm fully aware that there are decent and non-terrorist Muslims out there. But I should point out that sympathy for the goals of the Islamist radicals to at least some degree. It varies from country to country, but sympathy for the radicals is always mainstream - a significant minority and sometimes even a majority. Also in the West terrorist support is not as common; the majority of Basques have rejected the ETA and the majority of Irish people have rejected loyalist and republican terrorists. If you want an example, check out this poll from 2002:

Note some of the conclusions from Muslim countries:

* The majority of Lebanese support suicide bombing.
* The majority of Nigerians who expressed an opinion support suicide bombing.
* The majority of Bangladeshis who expressed an opinion support suicide bombing.
* 47 percent of Jordanians who expressed an opinion support suicide bombing.
* 43 percent of Pakistanis who expressed an opinion support suicide bombing.

You might wonder why I use a poll from 2002? Because that was before the Iraq War, the event that is supposedly responsible for radicalizing Muslims against the Western world (and the U.S. in particular) like no other.

Some other interesting findings I've seen:*/

This one finds that:

* The majority (52 percent) of Egyptians support the Sept 11th killings.
* Only 19 percent think Islamists were behind 9/11 (even the leader was an Egyptian), while 39 percent think it was an Israeli conspiracy.

Here's another one I found weird (not only because it came from The Guardian, either):

Poll in Egypt, 2006:

* Which country do you most hate? Top answer - USA.
* In which country would you most like to live? Top answer - USA.

And another Pew survey from 2007:

Which finds that:

* 42 percent of Nigerians support suicide bombing of civilians.
* 34 percent of Lebanese support suicide bombing of civilians.
* 23 percent of Jordanians support suicide bombing of civilians.
* 20 percent in Bangladesh support suicide bombing of civilians.
* 9 percent of Pakistanis support suicide bombing of civilians.
* 8 percent of Egyptians support suicide bombing of civilians.

* 57 percent of Palestinians support Bin Laden.
* 41 percent of Indonesians support Bin Laden.
* 38 percent of Pakistanis support Bin Laden.
* 20 percent of Jordanians support Bin Laden.

The good news is that the above poll also demonstrates falling support for terrorism in the Muslim world compared to 2003, but you can see that it's still pretty widespread.

Anyway, besides your arguments on popular opinion, there's also this matter:

"Islam is the same as any other belief structure, easily twisted to serve as a weapon."

Islam is not quite the same as any other belief system. Islam is much worse, much more violent. If you want a perspective of a former Muslim who became an atheist and knows firsthand how bad Islam is, I would recommend starting with Ibn Warraq's "Why I Am Not a Muslim". Read the first chapter here:

"I had decided I wanted to study political science. ... I wanted to understand why life in Holland was so different from life in Africa. Why there was so much peace, security and wealth in Europe. What the causes of war were, and how you built peace. ... Every contact I had with government, I thought, "How do you get to have a government like this?" ... This was an infidel country, whose way of life we Muslims were supposed to oppose and reject. Why was it, then, so much better run, better led, and made for such better lives than the places we came from? Shouldn't the places where Allah was worshipped and His laws obeyed have been at peace and wealthy, and the unbelievers' countries ignorant, poor, and at war?"
- Ayaan Hirsi Ali, on arrival in Holland from the Islamic world. From her book "Infidel".

"As for Christianity, in this posting I criticized the missionaries who wanted to abolish "heathen" Indian religions. Do you have a problem with that?"

I was talking about your opinion of Christianty.

Stephen said...

Also this link (the only one that actually worked):

Is not exactly my idea of a good source for example there's a pro-Sharia law article on there, which is disgusting.

Stephen said...

One more link:

So do you see how stupid it is telling people that we can learn from a religion that preaches violence, misogyny, bigotry, slavery and so on?

Stephen said...

Also those peaceful Muslims you mentioned might not be bombing innocents but do you know how widespread Muslim ant-Jewish sentiment and bigotry (which is supported by their disgusting book) is? And we're not just talking about the Arab world but also abroad; for example the Muslim Council of Britain is refusing to participate in the observance of National Holocaust Day.

Not mention the long history of Muslims oppressing (ie being forced to pay the Jizya) or killing Jews. It also amuses me to no end how critical you are of America and yet how apologetic you are for Islam. Paging doctor hypocrisy....

Stephen said...

Also I looked at the sites you posted (which are now working again for some reason) and they dont strike me as very credible. For example one repeats the myth that Islam actually means peace which is a complete lie. Plus there's little money quote:

"The United Nation's Charter does explicitly discuss the right of the occupied people to resist their occupiers. The legitimacy of fighting aggression by means of Jihad or armed struggle is extended not only from the Islamic teachings but also from the international law and UN Charter."

Which supports terrorism; so for someone who thinks they're educated on Islam it's obvious you haven't done your homework beyond looking at sites filled with lies (ie the lie that Islam fostered a golden age of scientific discovery). I suggest you read this:

Stephen said...

"Get over this myth that women are in any way belittled in Islam. Facilitating ease and honor for women always remained a priority in Islam, restored to women their rightly deserved honour & dignity in society, it declared them equal companions to men in all respects, it gave them share in property, gave them right to divorce, encouraged remarriage of widows, right to earn, right to learn at a time (14 centuries ago!) when a girl child was buried alive for no other reason than their unjust preference for a male child. If certain Muslim societies today are denying women their rights, it is despite of Islam's just commands."

One more lie from one of the sites you think is credible as I pointed out the Koran is blatantly sexist and the fact that their idea of a just command is being told to kill homosexuals just goes to show how twisted the people that made that tripod site are.

Stephen said...

A revealing quote from the crescent site:

"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means."

You'd have to be deluded to think that doesn't sound sexist. So your idea of a credible site spouts sexist crap, interesting.....

It also has this lie:

"Islam aims to build a peaceful society at all cost."

Yeah cutting off hands is really peaceful, who do these people think they're fooling?

And this:

"It’s a fact that, to be absolved from guilt, the raped woman must have shown some sort of good conduct, in the sense that what befell her must be something beyond her control. So, for a rape victim to be absolved from guilt, she must not be the one that opens her house for robbery and her dignity for deflowering."

So apparently according to these idiots unless rape victims meet certain standards they were simply asking for it. Here we have support for barbaric Sharia law:

"Shari`ah is not a legal system that keeps itself away from realities of life. Rather, it’s practical in the sense that its mechanism of justice operates in a quite flexible way that makes all its precepts and rulings applicable at all time. Anyway, as I’ve said, I won’t go into details on that now."

"If the woman gets pregnant, the pregnancy should not be aborted. Abortion is not permissible in Islam. It is killing a life God wants to create."

In other words under Islam women can have no control over their own bodies and they simply have to shut up and have kids they don't want (hmmm more sexism I'm starting to see a pattern here). Also note the last sentence apparently 'Allah' sets women up to be raped to create lives. Are you honestly that stupid to think that crap sites like these are ways to educate yourself?