June 19, 2010

Indian "species" to blame for racism?

I gather AIM Santa Barbara broadcast an e-mail about the Indian Headdresses at the World Cup. The e-mail generated a response that was more interesting than the headdress issue:Marie Jirousek
June 18, 2010 at 8:29pm
Re: Racism Regulations at World Cup...broken--TELL ESPN this is not OKAY


Oh for heaven's sake!!! Stop with this stupid paranoia already! Don't you have any more important issues to deal with (like your peoples' alcoholism, domestic violence, children abuse and such) that you have to waste your time with issues like a mexican fan wearing an Indian headdress? In case you forget, many mexicans are of indian origin too...those headdresses might have been Aztec, for all you know! Stop being so arrogant and self-centered. How do you want the world to respect you when you behave like total morons most of the time? It's your intolerant attitude that contributes to the racism against your species.
Rob's reply

1) We saw the photos. There's no such thing as an Aztec headdress that looks like a Plains headdress. That Jirousek think they're interchangeable is proof of the problem.

2) Stereotyping contributes to alcoholism, domestic violence, child abuse, and such.

3) Most people can handle several problems at a time. It's called multitasking.

4) "It's your intolerant attitude that contributes to the racism against your species" is an unfounded opinion unsupported by anything resembling a fact.

This is like saying, "The South maintained Jim Crow laws because blacks were too uppity." Or, "People hunt whales because whales think they own the ocean." You can say and think whatever you want, but unless you have some evidence, your opinion is probably worthless.

FYI, calling Indians a "species" also contributes to the racism against the "species." Duh.

Maybe Jirousek is tacitly admitting she comes from another planet. That could explain a lot.

Her comments remind me of Archie Bunker's statement about blacks:Let me tell you something about Richard E. Nixon. He keeps Pat home. Which was where Roosevelt should have kept Eleanor. Instead he let her run around loose, rousing up the coloreds, tellin' them they were gettin' the short end of the stick and we been having trouble ever since. Eleanor Roosevelt discovered the coloreds in this country. We never knew they was there!Here's my estimate of what people believe:

  • 50% think Indians are pretty much dead and gone.

  • 49.9% think Indians are alive but don't care about non-Indians wearing headdresses.

  • 0.1% understand that Indians don't like non-Indians wearing headdresses.

    If I'm right, the public is too ignorant about Indians to know their feelings about headdresses. Therefore, Indians who protest headdresses can't cause the harm Jirousek imagines.

    Protesting racism causes racism?!

    Proving that people who excuse racism are often racists themselves, here's some background on Jirousek. She's a white woman with cats who lives in Lausanne, Switzerland. She has a mere 34 friends on Facebook--down from 36 when this controversy started. In her own words, her experience with Natives includes this:After living for 5 years with a Native American, I know all I need to know about what is sacred to some Natives, but not for others. I know Natives who would gladly swap their eagle feather for a beer.

    I have seen what Indians are really like. I lived with one, you know? He and many others were just pathetic alcoholic parasites. THOSE are the people who hurt your cause. Not the ones who wear your SACRED plastic headdress for fun.
    She or someone named SkyHawkFireHeart--the Native boyfriend she hates?--also maintains this website:

    NDN Sports Mascots Issue

    where they cheer for Indian mascots and attack the Indians who protest them.



    Is SkyHawkFireHeart the Native boyfriend she obviously hates? With his made-up name, he sounds like a European hobbyist. But I guess he's real:

    BiographyOriginally from the Blackfeet Nation in Montana state in the Rocky Mountains and from my mother’s side, the Confederate Umatilla Tribes in the northwest USA.What crazy people think

    Let's delve deeper into Jirousek's theory of racism and see if we have it straight.

    For at least 450 years, I think we can all agree, whites were prejudiced against Indians. Manifest Destiny, genocide, etc. But all that changed about 50 years ago. Suddenly the centuries of race-based hatred disappeared, never to be seen again.

    In its place a new form of prejudice arose. Whites started despising Indians because Indians started protesting the previous racism against them. The old hate was gone, but a new hate replaced it.

    This hate was all the Indians' fault. Because Indians grew intolerant of racism, white people grew intolerant of them. This had to be the problem because, as everyone knows, whites are open and tolerant toward minorities.

    Thus we arrive at Jirousek's position today. "It's your intolerant attitude that contributes to the racism against your species." If Indians would just resume tolerating racism, as they did a century or two ago, the racism would disappear.

    Summing it up:

    Protesting racism causes racism...check. Ignoring racism eliminates racism...check. I guess racism against Indians was a minor problem until those pesky protesters made it a major problem in the last 50 years.

    Thanks for filling us in on how racism works, Swiss Miss. We appreciate your vast experience and knowledge of the subject. Now that you've solved this problem, maybe you can tackle global warming or world peace for us.

    Uppity "species" should shut up?

    This is roughly the same excuse Michelle Shining Elk gave us for not protesting the Dudesons episode on MTV. She and Jirousek think protests make Indians look like sad victims or angry malcontents. Which are almost opposites, but never mind. These people want us to think like this:

    Don't rock the boat. Accept the status quo. Causing trouble only leads to trouble. Keep quiet and suffer in silence.

    It's a lot like what a John McCain supporter said about rape: "As long as it's inevitable, you might as well lie back and enjoy it." According to people like Jirousek, that's the best answer to racism and stereotyping.

    For more on the subject, see Mentioning Racism = Dwelling on Past? and Stereotypes Disappear "Organically"?

  • 29 comments:

    Anonymous said...

    For your information, I was just the webmaster of SkyHawkFireHeart's website. All content and opinions are HIS and not mine. So, obviously not ALL Native Americans think the way you do. And if you believe he's a FAKE Indian, please, check out the rest of his website and see for yourself just how wrong you are.
    As for the unfortunate word "species" which seems to have upset you more than anything else, it was just an clumsy choice of words - english is NOT my mother tongue, you know?
    I also do not appreciate you posting my personal information for all Internet to see. You would be well advised to remove it unless you wish to expose yourself to law pursuit. That you do not appreciate my opinion is your right, however this is a campaign of diffamation and will not be tolerated. It also proves my point about how arrogant you are and that you think you have every right to slander and spread lies people you know nothing about.
    Marie Jirousek

    J said...

    Jirousek-
    Excuses , excuses.
    And Thank goodness ALL white Euros and Euro-Americans do NOT think like YOU do-- or God help us!
    Well For YOUR Information...
    I'll tell you the same thing I say to other racists bigots hiding behind sports fanaticism.
    Unless you have been living in a cave through out the past
    30 years --
    How can you NOT get it?

    1. When using stereotyped depictions of Native peoples for fun and entertainment you are treating an entire race as "things" - which dehumanizes. (But guess that is not ALL your fault -- since public schools and American society dumbs you down.)

    2. Native people are NOT like animals or things to be dehumanized or to be used for sake of YOUR fun and entertainment. THINK lady!- Put a depiction of YOUR preacher, your religion , or your relations out there so the other team can "slaughter" them. And oh yeah-- BTW make sure YOUR young child is sitting in the fan box when all that happens. How nice.
    3. Who are YOU people to say.. "we are honoring" when MOST (Yes MOST) of the very people that you claim to be honoring tell you to STOP and say this is despicable.

    To say that it is OK and that you are just having fun- is being self serving and making excuses for racial bigotry.

    4. Instead of choosing to remain a racist bigot-- Learn about how these racist acts impacts the well being of entire culture and that ALL children are injured by these bigoted acts - disguised as so called - sports fun fan(atics).

    Crawl out from your cave and Do a simple web search -- "Native American mascots- harms children".

    AIM SB said...

    another great Article Rob!

    Jirousek's viewpoint actually represents many out there. They don't seem to get how the people wearing Head dresses at the World Cup is another branch of the Macot issue and how this issue relates closesly to other horrible issues affecting Native people. Even in Ms. Jirousek's website points out, that Mascot protests were also used as a vehicle to get the word out on other issues- yet the Media would black that out- just like they black out everything that Native people are struggling with. Case in Point; there are the Native people suffering at the Gulf right now, do we hear anything about that with major media sorces? or the state of emergency- that some Nations (Pine Ridge being one) went through over winter recently (where people have died!). Nothing on the media. It just takes a little bit of critical thinking- and you can see how they are related and interconnected. Racism - in its many forms is active and pervasive in our communities and GLOBALLY- Sadly- many people want to stay "comfortable" and not challenge anything because it is familiar- even if it is negative and dysfunctional. However, just like child abuse or domestic violence, by not doing anything about it, it seeps into another generation. Suffering is not Traditional, Suffering in Silence is not Traditional. Native and Non Native people have a moral and ethical responsibility to make the abuse end.

    Rob said...

    Marie,

    As a webmaster, you should do more to link SkyHawk's mascot pages to the rest of his site. I found his biography, but it took some searching.

    I never said all Indians think alike. But here's a long list of Indians, tribes, and organizations who oppose mascots. It isn't just a few activists.

    If you can't write English well, whose fault is that? If you criticize people in your second language, you should expect to be criticized in that language. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

    What "personal information"...your location? You posted it for 400 million Facebook users to see. I don't consider anything available to 6% of the world's population private. If you don't like it, change your profile.

    What slander? What lies? I basically didn't say anything about you personally. I criticized the foolish ideas you foolishly made public. If you don't like that, keep your opinions to yourself.

    Let us know when you have anything to say about the actual content of this posting, okay? You know, my deconstruction of your defense of racism? Now that you've danced around the issues, try addressing them.

    Until then, I couldn't care less about your feeble threats. Go ahead and try suing a US citizen from Switzerland. I'm friends with a lot of Native lawyers, and they'll kick the butt of anyone who harasses me.

    dmarks said...

    "...those headdresses might have been Aztec...."

    Um, why, of course. Along with the Cherokee totem poles.

    Anonymous said...

    Rob
    You want my comments about your deconstruction of my "defence of racism"?
    First of all, when and where did I ever say that I agreed with racism and what allows you and all the rabid jackals on AIM's board to call me a racist? Just because I got fed up with your incessant attacks of clueless people who never had any intention of insulting or hurting any Native American and can only be accused of ignorance?
    After my message got posted, I received several emails calling me an ugly cow, and a coward because "everyone knows Swiss are cowards due to their neutrality". How's that for racism? It's even more laughable considering I'm not even Swiss. Then I got insulted by the same angry Native youth for chsoing to LIVE in a dirty country like Switzerland. How's that for racism? Is THAT what Native peoples teach their children? To hate all outsiders who don't agree with them?
    Let me tell you something, and then you can judge whether two fans wearing Native headdresses are really such a big deal.
    To be continued..

    Anonymous said...

    ...continued
    I used to be a member of an association whose mission was to assist the Native Nations in getting the world's attention and finding solutions for many of their current problems. I invested a lot of my time, money and energy in that work. We used to invite each year around 50 Native Americans from various tribes to come to our Powwow, talk to us and teach us about the reality of their condition. People came from abroad to our powwow, it was a perfect launching board for the Natives to make their voices be heard. We had some wonderful people here. But some came with the very clear purpose of just using our hospitality for their own private agenda, which was : getting drunk, collecting European women, trying to organize paying sweatlodges and establishing a business (peddling their culture)on this side of the ocean. The behavior of many shamed us so much that we lost more and more members every year and finally, the association fell apart, for lack of motivation. People who truly believed in the fight for the Natives'rights gave up and turned towards more worthy causes.
    So tell me, who hurts the Native culture more...a Native symbol being misused somewhere in the world, or the bad apples of Native origin who spread the "drunken Indian" cliché when they have a chance to show what their wonderful culture is all about?
    There is also a point that you probably have forgotten to consider in your attack of the European "racists". I am aware that Native children may be submitted to mockery and bad treatment in American society. But this is not - never HAS been - the case in Europe. There are Native children living here, and everyone wants to be their friend. Here, Indians carry an aura of almost "supernatural" beings. They are being admired - sometimes blindly -, put on pedestals and initated by many wannabes. There are entire societies of people living like Native Americans in Germany, or Czech republic. They do it not out of mockery or to ridicule the Natives, but because they really believe this way of life is an answer. I'm sure AIM would tear them to pieces. I don't approve with their make-believe, but I don't think they deserve to treated as racists.
    AIM has always been known for their indiscriminated violence and hatred against white people - and unfortunately they are preaching that hatred and distrust to the Native children, instead of teaching them conciliation. This creates angry young people who look for fights whenever they can. Do you think that helps in integrating them in American schools?
    The main fight AIM should have is with the US authorities. But since they are obviously powerless there, they vent their anger against the white man by nitpicking on ever little incident they can find - seriously, who wastes time looking for an incriminating piece of Native regalia worn by the wrong person on the other side of the planet?
    I DO understand the frustration. But being a white person, I KNOW how this kind of reaction affects ME. It gives the impression that the Natives think they can take whatever they want for other cultures, but that noone is good enough to take - or borrow - from theirs. And isn't it strange that the most fervent of Native causes defensors are often white people? A feeling of guilt, perhaps?
    I have nothing to feel guilty about. I tried to help as much as I could, was taken for a mug and now, I have run out of patience. All I got left is the right to express my opinion. Sorry you don't like it, but at least I tried to explain.
    Take care
    Marie

    Anonymous said...

    Boy oh boy, this little white chickie is so transparent. She had an obsessive fetish for Indian men and when he didn't quite live up to her stereotypical notions of what an Indian should be, she blames all Indians for her disappointments.

    She is the typical racist as in screaming the same old "they made me a racist"! If you don't like us why even bother with us? You need to let go of your pain and anger and move on, like in GET OVER IT!


    Anonymouse

    Anonymous said...

    Anonymouse, perhaps you should try to grow up..calling people names is not a solution. How am I a racist and where did I write anything that would make you think I was an Indian fetishist?? Why would I? Do you imply that white women should kiss the earth upon which you walk? And if you mean I was disappointed that someone teaching the Native way of life should turn out, when off stage, into a blabbering drunken idiot, then you are totally right, of course. Wouldn't YOU be?
    Have you understood a single word of what I wrote, or is it just that you have nothing smart to say so you keep on rambling about "racism" where there is none? true, it's so much easier than admit that whether stereotyped or not, many Natives are actually responsible for the bad opinion people might have of them?
    What's the point..it's people like you who perpetuate this notion that all white people are nasty racists. If you're comfortable with this idea and there's no discussion possible, indeed, why bother.
    And by the way, calling someone a little white chickie is just as offensive as if I called your wife or girlfriend a squaw. So who is a racist?
    Marie

    Anonymous said...

    OMG!! ROFLAO. Tsk tsk, poor little white chickie. Thank you for making my point. I do not want to engage you in any of your racist rants, I'm only pointing out the obvious.

    Again you need to deal with your anger issues and GET OVER IT!!

    It's not our fault that you got jilted by some Indian guy or got used by some so called Indians at your phoney baloney powwow in Switzerland.

    So quit with the weird creepy obsession you have about Indians, quit your crying (even thou I love to see white women's tears) and grow up and move on.



    Anonymouse

    dmarks said...

    ""everyone knows Swiss are cowards due to their neutrality"

    Actually, it is pretty well known now that Switzerland cooperated enough with Nazi Germany on different matters that there's no way you can call it neutral.

    Anonymous said...

    I think all of the comments here just prove MY point. Childish, hypocritical and without any justification other than wanting to get personal and insulting.
    Have fun, people. I pity you.
    Marie

    Anonymous said...

    Pathetic..all the childish comments posted here just prove MY point. Instead of adressing the issues I raise, you just seek to get personal and insulting. Oh yeah, that's the way to prove to the white chickie we are NOT prejudiced.
    For your info, just because I live in a country doesn't mean I originate from that country. Actually, I'm from one of the small countries the Germans attacked during the war. Then the Russians took our country away from us again. I've had my share of shit too. But you wouldn't know that. Just keep concentration on your belly-button and playing tough.
    I feel sorry for you.
    No point wasting my time here...
    Marie

    dmarks said...

    Marie is right that "anonymouse" was resorting to repeated racist epithets toward the end. Racism is bad no matter what the race of the racist.

    Anonymous said...

    Ahhh, boohoo! My speech just wasn't quite palatable enough for you and that simple white chickie? I wasn't being racist, actually I was being quite nice.

    Unfortunately there's no talking or reasoning with people like her. The only way to deal with her was to point out the obvious and tweak her nose until it hurts. No matter how hard anyone tries to enlighten, cajole or scream in her face she will never never get it. She is an utter piece of garbage and I don't play with garbage.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again you white people are so exhausting.


    Anonymouse

    Anonymous said...

    Interesting, those last comments..anything to say about INDIAN racists, Rob?

    Anonymous said...

    I'm tired of being insulted by white racist on this blog
    I'm tired of insulting questions by white people
    I'm tired of fake white wannabes stealing our identities
    I'm tired of having to defend my race to white people
    I'm tired of white frauds stealing our ceremonies
    I'm tired of the white supremacists who live on my reservation
    I'm tired of having to explain myself to white people
    I'm tired of being barraged by ugly mascots and the white people who love them
    I'm tired of having to explain to white people how their comments are racist.
    I'm tired of having to listen to white people get upset when I point out their racists attitudes.
    I'm tired of you and your white whine, so yeah, YOU WHITE PEOPLE ARE EXHAUSTING. So tell me how that is racist?


    Anonymouse

    Anonymous said...

    Anonymouse..
    "so called Indians at your phoney baloney powwow in Switzerland"

    Well I'm sure people like Bill Miller, Johnny Russell, Moses Brings Plenty, Jonathan Brewer, Jim Boyd, Anakwad, Marvin Calf Robe, Pablo Russell, Herman Begay, Paul Tohlakai, Robert Soto, among many others, would be very happy to be referred to as "so-called Indians".
    Just because a Powwow isn't taking place in US doesn't mean it's fake. Only Native were invited - no wannabes allowed. We DO have some respect for your culture, you know?
    As for me being "garbage"..well, I won't get down to your level. You're just digging a deeper hole for yourself by showing what some of you REALLY think about white people. And you DARE complain about US being prejudiced.
    Take care, pal.

    Marie

    dmarks said...

    Now, where did the racist line about "I love to see white women's tears" come from? Sounds almost like a quote from a villain in some awful 1940s western. But I checked into it: it's a well worn racist and sexist concept.

    dmarks said...

    And yes, "YOU WHITE PEOPLE ARE EXHAUSTING." is quite racist. It's racism no matter who is bashing whom for their skin color. Resorting to racist bashing because you are "tired" sort of reminds me of how Mel Gibson turned into a Nazi when he got drunk. Real character doesn't go away when you get drunk or tired.

    Now, let's get into specifics:

    "I'm tired of fake white wannabes stealing our identities"

    Can you name one Native individual who is the victim of "identity theft" by a white person"

    "I'm tired of white frauds stealing our ceremonies"

    How does one steal a ceremony? Do you put it in a box and cart it off? Is there a big empty place left where the ceremony used to be before it was stolen? (Hint: crack open a dictionary and check into the difference between theft and other different matters like copyright infringement and duplication).

    "I'm tired of being barraged by ugly mascots and the white people who love them"

    Maybe you have to explain yourself so much because you don't think things through when you say them. Check into any major mascot, from Chief Wahoo to the Washington R*dsk*ns, and you will find that African-American and Hispanic baseball and football fans love these mascots just as much as whites do. But it's clear that you are some sort of anti-white racist, and won't let facts get in the way of a good hateful rant.

    Anonymous said...

    dmarks said...
    Now, where did the racist line about "I love to see white women's tears" come from? Sounds almost like a quote from a villain in some awful 1940s western. But I checked into it: it's a well worn racist and sexist concept."

    Yes you are right it is a well worn racist and sexist concept, only aimed at women of color. All you had to do is google white womens tears and you would have found this on wiki feminist : White women's tears is a sarcastic / humorous reference to the tendency of race and gender discussions to be derailed by white women into the pain the discussion is causing non-POC. It parodies the overwrought concern of "(missing) white woman syndrome" or WWS[1].

    In the early 1990s, Native American lesbian poet Chrystos published a poem about the phenomenon, titled "Those Tears." [1]

    Or, here's an even better description from Abagond wordpress, where it says black woman, just insert Indian woman : White women’s tears is one of the main ways White American women have of derailing any talk of racism, particularly their own racism. It is part of a more general pattern of white people making their feelings matter more than the truth – something you see too in the tone argument, for example.

    White women’s tears can come about in different ways, but here is the classic scene:

    1.A white woman says something racist.
    2.A black woman points it out. (It could be any person of colour but it works best against black women for reasons given below.)
    3.The white woman says she is not racist and starts crying.
    4.For added effect the white woman can run out of the room.
    5.Other whites, particularly WHITE MEN, come to the aid and comfort not of the wronged black woman but of the racist white woman!
    6.The black woman, the wronged party, is made to seem like the mean one in the eyes of whites.
    7.The white woman continues to believe she is not racist.
    Tables turned! It works so well that it is hard not to see the tears as a cheap trick.

    This is more than just a woman using tears to get her way. It is built on a set of White American ideas about race, listed here in no particular order:

    It works best when these two stereotypes can be applied:

    The Sapphire stereotype - black women as mean, angry and disagreeable

    The Pure White Woman stereotype - white women as these special, delicate creatures who need to be protected at all costs. It is what drives the Missing White Woman Syndrome – and, in the old days, lynchings.

    The r-word: to be called a “racist”, however gently and indirectly, is a terrible, upsetting thing for white people – far worse than, you know, being a racist.
    White people and their feelings are the centre of the known universe.

    Hearts of stone: meanwhile whites seem to have a very, very hard time putting themselves in the shoes of people of colour.

    Moral blindness: white people think they are Basically Good, therefore if someone points out something bad about them it must be out of hatred.

    White solidarity: whites are afraid to stand up against racism, particularly when they are with other whites. Also, they do not like it when you call other whites racists – they seem to take it personally for some reason.

    All these things work together to help create the scene laid out above. It is why it works best for young, good-looking white women and why black women’s tears have nowhere the same effect in a white setting.

    In my own experience White American women are by far the hardest to talk to about racism. Even if you get past all their defences and they believe what you are saying, they act like they are going to cry. So you either stop or you push on and are made to look mean and heartless.


    Anonymouse

    Anonymous said...

    Hmmm, is that a Freudian slip, comparing me, an Indian to a drunk? You're starting to sound like your white chickie friend.

    As for stealing our identities and ceremonies, have you not read this blog for the last two years you've been posting???? How about reading the post about James Ray, the man who charged thousands and thousand of dollars to a bunch of gulible people for a vision quest and sweat lodge. After going on a phoney vision quest with no food for 36 hours, he pack them into a phoney sweat lodge and cooked them for hours! Three people died because of this man. Or how about Phil Landis aka Landis Cloudpiler, claimed he was the grandson of Chief Joseph; Chief Joseph didn't have any grandchildren. He went around selling ceremonies and claimed he was a Nez Perce medicine man. The Nez Perce Tribe served him with a cease and desist order' as you guest it' he wasn't Nez Perce or the grandson of Chief Joseph. Back in May 2009 he convinced the parents of 13-year-old mentaly impaired Daniel Hauser that he didn't need chemo therapy and made him a medicine man in his phoney tribe. Look it up Rob posted about him.

    If you're really interested in fake wannabes and frauds stealing ceremonies go to www.newagefraud.org and get enlightened.

    As for the mascot issue, what are you nine years old!! If Johnny jumped off a cliff would you? That old arab trader argument isn't going to fly, and yeah go google it.

    Oh yeah, even Rob finds white people exhausting, here's a quote from June 12th Clarifying my comments policy: I've heard all the arguments before, and I don't want to debate them again. I've answered such questions dozens if not hundreds of times. Therefore, I'm limiting the comments on some postings--especially the ones where I make broad generalizations about America, politics, and race. I'm tired of repeating myself.

    Hey white chickie, I know two of the people on your phoney powwow list and I will probably see one of them in a couple of weeks, I will be sure to ask him about his trip to Switzerland and get back to you.


    Anonymouse

    Anonymous said...

    Anonymouse,,,
    For my "phoney powwow list", you can see photos of those people on my old powwow website. That's all I have to say. And if you see someone from my list, say hello to him from Four Winds.You will disbelieve whatever I say anyway. You're not worth my time any longer.
    http://www.angelfire.com/in2/sandpiper3/
    Have a good life, don't choke on your hatred.
    The white chickie

    Anonymous said...

    Oh, and by the way, two of those people on my phoney list, Herman Begay and Paul Tohlakai, are this very weekend getting ready for the Four Winds Powwow in Ornans, France- also organized by the Four Winds association. Those two must be REALLY fake, huh?
    White Chickie (I kinda like that name..).

    dmarks said...

    "Yes you are right it is a well worn racist and sexist concept, only aimed at women of color"

    Yet, you aimed it at Marie, who is presumably white, and not one of the colored women you refer to.

    "is that a Freudian slip, comparing me, an Indian to a drunk?"

    No. I've never had or entertained any idea of the stereotype that Native Americans are any more likely to be drunks than anyone else. The man I was referring to, in fact, is pure Euro White.

    "White people and their feelings are the centre of the known universe"

    Does your own racist bigotry know no end?

    "White solidarity: whites are afraid to stand up against racism..."

    Any time anyone gets into the (this race or that) "are", they are diving deep into racial generalization and stereotype.

    "white chickie friend".

    In terms of racist statements, you are far outnumbering anyone here. Your saying that my comparing Mel Gibson for getting illogical when drunk to you getting illogical when tired is "Racist" is a leap of pure imagination.

    "As for stealing our identities and ceremonies, have you not read this blog for the last two years you've been posting???? How about reading the post about James Ray..."

    James Ray engaged in fraud, not theft. And I defy you to come up with one or Rob's stories about a non-Native stealing the identity of a Native. There might be one or two, but it is likely to be rare. And I've been reading this longer than you have.

    Thanks for the details on the detestable James Ray, none of which included any theft.

    "If you're really interested in fake wannabes and frauds stealing ceremonies go to www.newagefraud.org and get enlightened."

    Been there, read that. You will find fraud and false claims, but no theft.

    "That old arab trader argument isn't going to fly, and yeah go google it. "

    No idea where this came from. Perhaps it is the start of a racist rant against Arabs.

    -----------------------

    Back to the European pow-wow thing. Are any of these pow-wows organized by actual Native Americans?

    Anonymous said...

    Dmarks
    About the Swiss Powwows (I don't know how it works in other European countries, but they are having powwows too). Our "organization" consisted in finding and contacting Native Americans who might be interested in participating, flying them over to Switzerland and then giving them the freedom to present whatever they thought was suitable or important. Of course, WE organized the actual powwow grounds - had to rent a place big enough to contain about 10000 people, with sanitary equipment (in our case, a huge swimming pool place with a beautiful park on the shore of the Geneva lake), put up the teepees, the huge concert tents, the food stands, then also stands for all the Natives who came with merchandise to sell or information to communicate, print out all the press info, book rooms in hotels nearby for around 50 Natives, provide transportation for them, and all the little technical details an event such as this involves. Then the Natives proposed conferences, discussions with people who were interested in their culture - specific to different tribes or more generic, they presented their dances in all dance styles, and the most important aspect of this encounter was that they mingled with the public who was eager to meet them and talk to them. Then at the end of the powwow , we took the Natives for an excursion to some typical Swiss place so they could also see some of OUR culture. They usually loved that and we had a lot of fun. There was never, EVER a single racist incident or anything that might have embarrased them. So to anwser your question, the Natives did NOT participate in the logistics and technicalities of the powwow, but they were entirely in control of everything that they chose to share with us, which was the point of the whole event. We had not just many Native tribes from US and Canada, but Shuars from Amazonia. Aztecs from Mexico, Indians from Equador and Guyanas, Inuits...it was a very rich experience.
    White chickie.

    dmarks said...

    Chickie: I'm still kind of iffy on the idea of non-Natives actually organizing the pow-wows. Over here, the Natives have no problem organizing all of them themselves.

    And I have had my own experience with the fake Indians of Europe. When arriving in Venice a few years ago, I was greeted by an "Indian" band playing generic new-agey "Native American" pipe/etc music. They were resplendent in the most stereotypical getups imaginable. Think Chief Illinawek. I ventured close enough to find out that the musicians all had Italian names.

    Anonymous said...

    Dmarks
    I agree with you that some people make tasteless imitations just for fun or business, and others - the real wannabes - who seem to think they will become Indians if they live like them. This has nothing to do with the people we invited. The only reason why they couldn't organise the logistics of the powwow is pretty obvious I think: they were coming from all around the world, didn't speak french, had little money, didn't have any contacts here in Switzerland and were only here for the duration of the powwow, just about a week or so. Since we were paying for all the expenses, including the flights, we could hardly afford to have them stay for a month to do all the work on the powwow grounds themselves. Anyway, I don't really see how it's relevant if Europeans rather than Natives take care of all the publicity, put up a concert tent, or set up kitchens and toilets. Would the Natives do it some other, BETTER way? Why always nitpick on everything we do, when the Natives themselves were pretty happy about it? It seems to me that no matter what we do, with the best of intentions, there is ALWAYS someone to criticize the way it way done. Are you surprised then that many people give up on trying to understand the Natives and on supporting their cause?
    White chickie.

    Anonymous said...

    This is for Rob:
    "I criticized the foolish ideas you foolishly made public. If you don't like that, keep your opinions to yourself."
    Just so you know, I never made some of what you posted here public. Those were private messages between me and some people from AIM's board, as an answer to specific questions, and were never meant to be brought in the open. But obviously they didn't hesitate to spread them all over their board ( I can only guess, since I don't have access to it)which just shows what a bunch of vultures they are. And you are no better, digging up all the dirt you can and taking it out of context to make sensational posts. As far as I know, emails are a private thing and you do NOT have the right to publish them for everyone to see. But I bet you think you have ALL the rights in the name of the cause you're supposedly serving. .
    I have no respect for people like you whatsoever and I do agree with some of the posters on this blog who call you a hypocrite.
    Marie