Where Native America meets pop culture
hmmm so you fight racist stereotypes with racist stereotypes... hows that working for you so far.Of the 27 million people in the world of Irish descent, how many actually support this band.
To show that both sets of stereotypes are wrong? Absolutely.How many times have I compared a savage Indian to an African spearchucker, an Uncle Tom, or a Stepin Fetchit? Probably hundreds of times. This is the same idea.
Jaine, where's your sense of humor? Can't you see Rob is HONORING the Irish by celebrating their rich folkloric tradition and legendary capacity for alcohol? Whitefolks: Dishing it out without being able to take it since 1492.
I pulled up some videos of the Irish band, The Indians and it is tasteless, tongue and cheek stereotypes grouping all American Indians as stupid and animated characters no different than sports mascots.These guys need to get a copy of Dick Cavettes 1973 interview with Marlon Brando along with some current and past violent hate crimes committed against native peoples here in the US and Canada. Maybe then they can see Indian people as being living beings instead of dead profitable icons?
In a comment on an earlier post, Kevin justifies hatred of Indians because he has been called a "mick" in the past.
T. Laurel said: "Whitefolks: Dishing it out without being able to take it since 1492."Amid all the rest of this discussion, your statement is as blatantly racist as anything being discussed. From the generalization ("whitefolks"), always a key part of racism, to the idea that people in the group you despise should sit back and take it when they receive injustice.No, sorry. No racism is accaptible. Even if the victims are judged by bigots as being deserving of it.
Rob, I have seen you compare sets of stereotypes to make a point, and I support that point. Uusually you provide a couple of photos at the end of the blog as an example. This blog was just a lot of Irish stereotypes, if you posted a blog that only contained African or Asian stereotypes I would also make a similar comment.T Lauren - I don't support this band and have been vocal about it. That some racist Irish twits want to dress up and be offensive is appalling and I will continue to support the campaign to get them to drop the 'gimmick'. This doesn't mean I can't comment on racism against other groups, including my own. As dmarks said 'no racism is acceptable', that goes for you and for Kevin.
alas, I have been looking through Irish music, politic and what have you blogs and this issue doesn't even seem to have registered.Not that I necessarily think most Irish would actively support this band, the apathy and disinterest apparent is harmful enough.
Jaine's right; one has to be careful in presenting an alternative stereotype (Irish clown band) to make a point, as opposed to actually supporting such an idea.
dmarks, I don't despise whitefolks. I *am* whitefolks. You are a sanctimonious jackass of the "black people say the N-word, so why can't I?" school. It's different when whitefolks do it because whitefolks oppressed other races for centuries and continue to do so. I feel less than zero guilt about pointing out the asininity of my own kind. Assuming you really believe what you typed and aren't just trying to score points, educate yourself. Google "racism 101." Look for phrases like "fallacious flip."Hell, Google the word "racism." You may find it does not mean what you think it does. Ditto "sexism."
"dmarks, I don't despise whitefolks. I *am* whitefolks."Which does not excuse such statements. Racism is as racism does."You are a sanctimonious jackass of the "black people say the N-word, so why can't I?" school."Either you aren't thinking, or you are confusing me with someone else. I oppose the N-world regardless of whether or not Blacks use it."It's different when whitefolks do it..."There's no need to finish such a sentence, as it starts out with a heavy racist generalization."because whitefolks oppressed other races for centuries and continue to do so"So, people deserve bigotry because other people who had the same skin color did some stuff for a long time? Sorry, I don't buy it... but yet again I am not a bigot."Assuming you really believe what you typed"I do. I actually thought through what I typed, and detest racism.This includes the "fallacious flip" idea which attempts to justify racial hatred against people who have been deemed to deserve it. Doing such a flip is a good way to point out the hypocrisy of these racists."Hell, Google the word "racism." You may find it does not mean what you think it does."Gladly, bigot:"The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race"Well, there goes your "it's different" idea.Think before you type next time and vent your poorly thought out bigotry. You might want to consider judging people not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.Here is another excellent one:"Discrimination or prejudice based on race."Whitefolks are no different from blackfolks or Nativefolks or Romfolks or Arabfolks or or or....only a hardcore racist would think otherwise.
By the way, here are some very non-fallacious flips, to show the folly of discrimination or prejudice based on race:"Blackfolks: Dishing it out without being able to take it""Maorifolks: Dishing it out without being able to take it""Nativefolks: Dishing it out without being able to take it"Exactly like saying any of this about "whitefolks", such statements show an un-intellectual and mean-spirited tendency to judge people by race, instead of as individuals."Non-fallacious "flips" like this are useful to drive home the point that any racism of any kind is foolish.
dmarks, Thanks for demonstrating so eloquently the phenomenon of blindness to privilege.Whitefolks are not incapable of not being racists. We simply find it so hard to see around the edges of our own privilege that it often seems that way. I suppose I should have suggested you Google "privilege."When you ignore everything I said in your eagerness to defend yourself and keep right on "flipping the script" as if oppressor racism and oppressed discrimination are in any way equivalent, you are indeed doing something very similar to whining that black people can use the N-word but white people can't.And the MLK quote (without attribution yet! that's a new slant!) makes it. Truly. I've never met a blind-to-privilege person who didn't love the hell out of that quote, because when it's quoted entirely out of context like that, it allows them to ignores history and privilege (i.e., CONTEXT.You've made yourself look more foolish than anyone else ever could have.Truly: Educate yourself. Nobody owes you any schooling, and I'm done pretending you can be schooled.
"Whitefolks are not incapable of not being racists."Which is not only flat-out untrue, it is racist. You truly have no idea what you are speaking of, and are un-intellectual and bigoted.Here's an amazingl fact: no person can be assumed to be a racist unless there is evidence of it."We simply find it so hard to see around the edges of our own privilege..."Speak for yourself. You don't know the lives of others, especially not to the point where you can make this insulting and untrue generalization."I suppose I should have suggested you Google "privilege."Why? It is totally irrelevant. You will fail to use the real concept of white privilege to justify smearing and slandering an entire group of people based on skin color."When you ignore everything"Actually, I read what you said as the ignorant and unintellectual stereotypes kept piling on."if oppressor racism and oppressed discrimination are in any way equivalent"They ARE. To deny this is to subscribe to blatant racism. That the "oppressors" are often much richer and more numerous makes their racism worse. But on an individual level, you have no idea what you are talking about."you are indeed doing something very similar to whining that black people can use the N-word but white people can't."Not in the least. Again, I oppose that. I consistently oppose all racism."And the MLK quote (without attribution yet!"Can you find me ONE person reading this who did not know that Dr. King said this? Everyone knows this."that's a new slant!) makes it."It's not a new slant.While you insist on judging people to the point of lying about them and their lives and situations based on their skin color, Dr. King told us to look beyond this."because when it's quoted entirely out of context like that"I am quoting it full aware of the context."You've made yourself look more foolish than anyone else ever could have."No, I have countered every one of your weak arguments in favor of bashing people for being the wrong skin color.Racism is foolish.I say to you: truly, educate yourself. Look past your ignorance and prejudice and hatreds."and I'm done pretending you can be schooled."I will never be schooled to accept any kind of racism. I reject it all... even the racism that racists insist i accept because a group deserves it.Time for lesson:1) White privilege exists. Of course.2) It is racist to generalize based on race. Any time.3) As with any group; some whites are racist, and some are not. You are an example of the former, having passionately argued racist views. Rob is an example of the latter, as am I. Jaine is also. For an example of a very racist non-White, look at former commenter Russ, a Kiowa native. This all varies by individual, not skin color.
Before we all point fingers and call each other useless labels, let me offer my take on racism.I believe ignorance is universal and even shared comfortably as we base either our divisions or united ideals that we agree upon by nationality, race, religious faiths and cultures. As a full blooded Indian, I cannot claim I know everything about European, Asian, African and Middle Eastern peoples ways and have been educated and misinformed collectively about other races. Therefore, I believe we all hold some form of racism being nurtured, conditioned and raised since childhood in our American educational institutions with little, or no solid, informed facts about each others races, but rather of the mythical superior Americana we eventually find out in college and life that is not a fact based identity. It is mainly because our history is checkered with racism with the race riots of Tulsa and slavery, lynchings, anti-Chinese policy's and discrimination; the ongoing struggle for Latino rights and citizenship, and of course the continued genocide of my native people through legislation and outright attacks, like the recent one in Nevada.I think we should all re-evaluate our approach to one another as different races and cultures. That is the only success and strength we have as one nation and one human race. Ultimately when a push comes to shove, we always seem to have one another back. I say there need not be another 911 or OKC bombing for us to be just American.We should fix our own racism here in America first since the Irish band called "The Indians" was no doubt something we exported years back through TV, film and pop culture.
Totally concur dmarks:"I will never be schooled to accept any kind of racism. I reject it all... even the racism that racists insist i accept because a group deserves it."Thanks for your thoughts anonymous, as a non-American it's a little hard for me to comment on, as a Kiwi of Irish descent I have no qualms in letting this band know how I feel. I guess I feel the Irish who support this band should know better (given the Irish have fought and still fight colonial oppression (since 1167) and many of the Irish stereotypes that still abound world wide come from British propaganda after the Great Hunger.T Laurel "It's different when whitefolks do it because whitefolks oppressed other races for centuries and continue to do so." dmarks summed up why this is racist, it's also extemely ignorant. The Irish are ethnically different from the English and have been oppressed for close to 900 years, infact in Northern Ireland the conduct of the loyalist British to this day, is akin to marching onto reservations playing drums to celebrate historic victories and then getting drunk and throwing stones at Native Americans. According to your statement this is acceptable because Northern Irish are white. When did the Northern Irish ever oppress any other race? How about the Sami people or the Scottish? Your generalisations are racist, offensive, ignorant and downright lies.
There might be some overlap between Anon's views and those of Sulfate above, but Anon was able to make the points intelligently and without any racismJaine: Great points. Now, watch fur Sulfate to falsely accuse you of saying that the N-word is OK like he/she did for me."Downright lies" is a perfect description.
I agree dmarks, I couldn't quite follow the logic regarding Sulphate's accusations to you about the n word and white privilege, they certainly were out of context with your comments.I got the impression Sulphate uses those as tools indiscriminately when arguing with whites because she sees all white people as racist. Apart from being foolish it is a shame because it lessens their impact when used in the right context.
It's just flat-out wrong to accuse people of something when there is no evidence of it. And skin color is no evidence of anything, really.
Sounds like Dmarks is a little butt hurt because someone makes a "blantant" point on racism begetting racism.
Shadow. Can you be more clear? Yes, I oppose all racism. As for the spelling point, you being a spelling nazi only paints 'fail' on your forhead*.(I mispelled forehead to give you another opportunity to make such extremely important points on spelling).
Post a Comment